Pathfinder 2E Playtest

[ScoobyThulu]

Tried a few sessions on PF 2 playtest, not the system but I think I broke a tooth on it, but the gamemaster. Just. Terrible. So we dropped out, life is too short for crappy games.
On the flip side I have started a sort of "work group" D&D 5e game. Very excited about that.
I see no reason togo out of my way to have players learn a new, crunchier version of an already crunchy system (which I liked just fine). Or to introduce new players to something super crunchy, let's go lighter with 5e and save us all some trouble.
And that is the story of my Pathfinder 2e playtest experience.

[John]

I don't get the value proposition (I mean, I get the value proposition for paizo, but not for players). Pathfinder is the splattiest crunchiest popular fantasy RPG for people who love splat and crunch. If I wanted to play pathfinder today the fact that there are mountains of splat everywhere would be the point, not a drawback. A board clearing edition change would be a bucket of cold water over the whole idea.

[Knaight]

I don't get the value proposition (I mean, I get the value proposition for paizo, but not for players). Pathfinder is the splattiest crunchiest popular fantasy RPG for people who love splat and crunch. If I wanted to play pathfinder today the fact that there are mountains of splat everywhere would be the point, not a drawback. A board clearing edition change would be a bucket of cold water over the whole idea.

A constant stream of new splatty crunch is fun - but mental maintenance on that growing pile of old crunch is significantly less fun. This necessitates phasing crunch out every so often, and as RPGs are generally pretty unfriendly to something like just removing sufficiently old books the tactic instead is to make a new edition incompatible with the old books. That lets the players restart their new crunch knowledge growth cycle, while also enjoying the depths of system mastery that come from learning tens of thousands of pages of crunch all compatible due to being part of the same massive system. It makes a lot of sense, if you have players with the right set of interests.

Granted, said set of interests is basically a comprehensive list of things I dislike in RPGs, so I have to speculate a bit.

[John]

I see. So the experience of keeping up with an ever-widening splat sprawl is fun, but keeping track of an accumulation of yesterday's crunch over nine years is tiresome.

I can see how that would make sense. It sounds about as fun as gouging my eyeballs out compared to using a system that everyone can mostly understand and leaving that system in place, but somebody likes doing it.

[Azhrei Vep]

It also forms a jumping on point for a new generation of customers who'd rather play something else but can't find a group for anything better. Can't forget that.

[Knaight]

I see. So the experience of keeping up with an ever-widening splat sprawl is fun, but keeping track of an accumulation of yesterday's crunch over nine years is tiresome.

I can see how that would make sense. It sounds about as fun as gouging my eyeballs out compared to using a system that everyone can mostly understand and leaving that system in place, but somebody likes doing it.

Pretty much, to both of these. I'm okay with limited splat, but D&D is pushing it already with this whole "3 core books" nonsense, and the splatbook release rates come across as completely ridiculous to try and keep up with. Grabbing the occasional particularly relevant book GURPS style is one thing, but the whole idea of paying 40 a month to learn 300 pages of rules for a game I already have, month after month just sounds awful.

It also forms a jumping on point for a new generation of customers who'd rather play something else but can't find a group for anything better. Can't forget that.

That's more a Paizo-side benefit than a customer-side benefit though.

[Darth Xentus]

Pretty much, to both of these. I'm okay with limited splat, but D&D is pushing it already with this whole "3 core books" nonsense, and the splatbook release rates come across as completely ridiculous to try and keep up with. Grabbing the occasional particularly relevant book GURPS style is one thing, but the whole idea of paying 40 a month to learn 300 pages of rules for a game I already have, month after month just sounds awful.

Are you referring to 5e with regards to the splat release and "3 core books" bit?



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[Knaight]

Pretty much, to both of these. I'm okay with limited splat, but D&D is pushing it already with this whole "3 core books" nonsense, and the splatbook release rates come across as completely ridiculous to try and keep up with. Grabbing the occasional particularly relevant book GURPS style is one thing, but the whole idea of paying 40 a month to learn 300 pages of rules for a game I already have, month after month just sounds awful.

Are you referring to 5e with regards to the splat release and "3 core books" bit?



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3 Core Books has been in D&D from the start - but the splat release rate being totally ridiculous to keep up with is more a 3.x/Pathfinder trait.

[Darth Xentus]

Ah, that clears things up. Though based on my experience, the dmg for 5e is optional. Helps that the game was balanced without magic items being assumed.

Back to Pathfinder, the sheer amount of splat and crunch is what kept me and my own group of friends away from it. I'm hoping PF2 trends away from the splat onslaught and keeps more with 5e's once a year thing. That said, the current play test is a bit too heavy on the rules for my taste. Especially with the whole resonance thing, even for something as simple as potions.

That said I do like their actions economy and how flexible it is. And the feat approach to class and race really allows for some fine tuned customization. They just need to make sure they don't have any bum options when they release. The character creation process is also pretty cool, and keeps in line with the idea of making the character you want.

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[ScoobyThulu]

We showed up for two sessions, the GM was... well let us say not helpful in character creation. We weren't looking for anything big here, just some dungeon crawl stuff right? We created our characters, came back for session two and it was...
Just.
Bad.
Not the system, there is some cool if superfluous stuff there, as in PF is not broke and does not need fixing. Updating? Sure, it needs to be marketable but to salt the Earth of the old rules? No.
It was the GM, not very dynamic or a good story or characters or anything.
Something came up for session 3 and we just didn't go back.
Gaming time as an adult is sometimes too hard to come by so we don't have time for Not Fun.