Cut & a Trim

Off-topic discussion that doesn't fit anywhere else.

How much do you pay for your grooming? (hair cut, beard trim, shave, etc.)

Less than $20
20
71%
$20 to $40
8
29%
$40 to $60
0
No votes
$60 to $80
0
No votes
$80 to $100
0
No votes
More than $100?
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 28

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Lord Foul
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Re: Cut & a Trim

Postby Lord Foul » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:34 pm

terrus wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:
terrus wrote:I have a barber I've gone to for the last 20 odd years, $10 with usually an $8 tip.

How does that work? :think: You're charged $10, which I guess is one note (bill)... and then you count out exactly 8 more dollars in some combination of currency? Why $8? It seems such an odd number to pick. :eh:


It is because it is about the change from getting a drink before hand.

Ah, okay, now it makes sense. :lol:

Jeez, but you Americans really do take tipping to a whole different league. British people are generally considered big tippers as far as the rest of Europe is concerned, and we usually come in around 10%. No other country I know tips anywhere near you guys.
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Re: Cut & a Trim

Postby Vinnie_Vidivici » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:17 pm

Lord Foul wrote:Jeez, but you Americans really do take tipping to a whole different league. British people are generally considered big tippers as far as the rest of Europe is concerned, and we usually come in around 10%. No other country I know tips anywhere near you guys.

Yup. And I hate it. Somehow the idea got promulgated that the 'correct' amount to tip your food service worker was 15%. And the rules for who to tip and how much got more arcane and byzantine as time went by.

But then, the restauranteurs started to estimate how much a server should' get in tips, and subtracted that amount from what they paid. Theoretically that was also supposed to help keep the price of the meal down, but it really didn't because now, if I don't tip for a meal, I know that the poor server isn't making a fair wage. And, the servers are supposed to put their tips into a common 'pot' of money that is then broken down to share with the busser and the kitchen staff.

And, of course, if tips are factored in to a worker's wages, then those tips are supposed to be reported to the IRS as income and taxed accordingly.

I'd much rather pay a meal's true cost--one that allows for a fair wage for everybody in the restaurant--and only tip for really noteworthy service.

I seem to recall all this being broken down in much more detail in another thread, sometime in the past. And I should also say I've never worked a job where tipping was part of the transaction. (I did once get a tip when I was a paramedic. It felt weird.)

I apologize if I just derailed the thread--if booters want to continue this discussion we can make a new one.

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Re: Cut & a Trim

Postby Knaight » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:46 pm

Lord Foul wrote:Jeez, but you Americans really do take tipping to a whole different league. British people are generally considered big tippers as far as the rest of Europe is concerned, and we usually come in around 10%. No other country I know tips anywhere near you guys.

I'm pretty sure you lot don't have the "server's wage" concept, where you can legally pay people some small fraction of minimum wage if they make up the rest in tips.
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Lord Foul
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Re: Cut & a Trim

Postby Lord Foul » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:36 pm

Knaight wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:Jeez, but you Americans really do take tipping to a whole different league. British people are generally considered big tippers as far as the rest of Europe is concerned, and we usually come in around 10%. No other country I know tips anywhere near you guys.

I'm pretty sure you lot don't have the "server's wage" concept, where you can legally pay people some small fraction of minimum wage if they make up the rest in tips.

No, we don't. We have a legal requirement to pay every employee a minimum wage. Tips are voluntary gratuities to reward good service. You ought to stop calling the extra payment a tip and start referring to it as the "basic human decency adjustment" or something.
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BottledViolence
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Re: Cut & a Trim

Postby BottledViolence » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:17 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
Knaight wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:Jeez, but you Americans really do take tipping to a whole different league. British people are generally considered big tippers as far as the rest of Europe is concerned, and we usually come in around 10%. No other country I know tips anywhere near you guys.

I'm pretty sure you lot don't have the "server's wage" concept, where you can legally pay people some small fraction of minimum wage if they make up the rest in tips.

No, we don't. We have a legal requirement to pay every employee a minimum wage. Tips are voluntary gratuities to reward good service. You ought to stop calling the extra payment a tip and start referring to it as the "basic human decency adjustment" or something.



You can also call it a "Tax evasion adjustment", a "Child support and alimony fraud adjustment", or a "steal from your employer incentive."

Honestly, tipping is bullshit. It's bad for the business, bad for the server, and bad for the customer. This is of course a broad generalization that begs for FtB style wankery, but it really is a terrible system.

Of course it's great for folks like me. I'm a decent looking, almost middle aged white guy, so I am perceived (and reality as a demographic, we are the best tippers) as a big tipper so I get preferential service. For places where I am a regular, I also get a heavy pour, tons of free drinks, extras with my meals, and sometimes they don't even charge me since I usually tip 33-100%.

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Re: Cut & a Trim

Postby tombombodil » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:27 am

BottledViolence wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:
Knaight wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:Jeez, but you Americans really do take tipping to a whole different league. British people are generally considered big tippers as far as the rest of Europe is concerned, and we usually come in around 10%. No other country I know tips anywhere near you guys.

I'm pretty sure you lot don't have the "server's wage" concept, where you can legally pay people some small fraction of minimum wage if they make up the rest in tips.

No, we don't. We have a legal requirement to pay every employee a minimum wage. Tips are voluntary gratuities to reward good service. You ought to stop calling the extra payment a tip and start referring to it as the "basic human decency adjustment" or something.



You can also call it a "Tax evasion adjustment", a "Child support and alimony fraud adjustment", or a "steal from your employer incentive."

Honestly, tipping is bullshit. It's bad for the business, bad for the server, and bad for the customer. This is of course a broad generalization that begs for FtB style wankery, but it really is a terrible system.

Of course it's great for folks like me. I'm a decent looking, almost middle aged white guy, so I am perceived (and reality as a demographic, we are the best tippers) as a big tipper so I get preferential service. For places where I am a regular, I also get a heavy pour, tons of free drinks, extras with my meals, and sometimes they don't even charge me since I usually tip 33-100%.


Agreed, it's a hugely problematic band-aid trying and failing to help stem the issues caused by corporate United State's refusal to pay people a living wage. Federal minimum wage is criminally low, and even in places where it's significantly higher it hasn't kept up with inflation and rising living costs. But that's a whole other tangent.
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Knaight
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Re: Cut & a Trim

Postby Knaight » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:03 am

Lord Foul wrote:
Knaight wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:Jeez, but you Americans really do take tipping to a whole different league. British people are generally considered big tippers as far as the rest of Europe is concerned, and we usually come in around 10%. No other country I know tips anywhere near you guys.

I'm pretty sure you lot don't have the "server's wage" concept, where you can legally pay people some small fraction of minimum wage if they make up the rest in tips.

No, we don't. We have a legal requirement to pay every employee a minimum wage. Tips are voluntary gratuities to reward good service. You ought to stop calling the extra payment a tip and start referring to it as the "basic human decency adjustment" or something.

I'm more or less with Bottled Violence on that being a viable term, as are the rest of his suggestions. Personally I favor the "server needs to make rent adjustment" school of thought.
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BottledViolence
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Re: Cut & a Trim

Postby BottledViolence » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:39 am

tombombodil wrote:Agreed, it's a hugely problematic band-aid trying and failing to help stem the issues caused by corporate United State's refusal to pay people a living wage. Federal minimum wage is criminally low, and even in places where it's significantly higher it hasn't kept up with inflation and rising living costs. But that's a whole other tangent.

The original minimum wage was 25 cents an hour, corrected for inflation it's less than $5 an hour. It isn't that living costs went up, it's that living expectations went up. But like you said...

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Re: Cut & a Trim

Postby BottledViolence » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:45 am

It's also important to keep in mind that while tipped employees have a lower minimum wage, the employer has to make up the difference if their base pay plus tips falls below the standard minimum wage.

There isn't a server in the industry that isn't making over minimum wage even before you figure in the fact no one claims 100% of their tips on their taxes. It's a broken system, but for the ones who game it, it can be lucrative.

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Re: Cut & a Trim

Postby clintmemo » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:55 am

BottledViolence wrote:
tombombodil wrote:Agreed, it's a hugely problematic band-aid trying and failing to help stem the issues caused by corporate United State's refusal to pay people a living wage. Federal minimum wage is criminally low, and even in places where it's significantly higher it hasn't kept up with inflation and rising living costs. But that's a whole other tangent.

The original minimum wage was 25 cents an hour, corrected for inflation it's less than $5 an hour. It isn't that living costs went up, it's that living expectations went up. But like you said...


There is a nice graph of it here:
http://money.cnn.com/interactive/economy/minimum-wage-since-1938/
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