Random Video Game Thoughts

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BottledViolence
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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby BottledViolence » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:53 am

tombombodil wrote:Image

Lol, at least they're finally coping to the fact that 60 bucks plus tax for most big budget games is a shell-price; a starter deal that they've arbitrarily carved content out of. Deluxe and Collector's Editions are just the new Day 1 DLC.

It used to piss me off, now I accept the fact that buying a game day one probably means only buying a partial game and in order to get the full game all at once you have to wait for a Complete or GOTY edition and you may as well wait for a Steam sale.

Games I bought day one in the last few years:
MSFS 2020... huge nightmare, never worked, got a refund from Steam. Tried it on the M$ game pass thing, played a week, uninstalled the bug ridden piece of shit and probably won't bother again.
BG3... Early access, discovered it's a shitty reskin of another game, the intro is a horrible railroad, the plot has so many tie one to shit I don't like that in spite of the decent gameplay and great graphics I have no interest in playing.
That's it. I'm done buying brand new games again. Cyberpunk is probably the only game I'll buy for more than $20 untill DCS releases an F4 (Corsair or Phantom) or A6 module if you want to count those as games. I might spring for a new edition of IL2 if they do a pacific title since I'm dying to do some straight deck carrier ops. Of course that's really just another expansion to an existing game.

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BottledViolence
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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby BottledViolence » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:56 am

Without nostalgia, retro gaming mostly sucks. :lol:

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Ikoma
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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby Ikoma » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:15 am

BottledViolence wrote:Without nostalgia, retro gaming mostly sucks. :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

So much truth. I learned while trying to share my old favs with my kids. Who just looked at the retro games and asked if all people my age are as easily amused. The rose colored glasses are real.
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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby John » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:18 am

Yeah it's like retro anything else. It's an observation that's hard to make until you're a little older (the music of your school years showing up on stations that market themselves by decade might be a rough signal that you're there).

A sample of the most popular and/or aged-well content (games, music, movies, whatever) is preserved for a generation or two after it was mainstream. But it's a small sliver of what was actually new/hot/marketed during those years, most of which of course was forgotten as soon as the next thing came along. High schoolers now aren't getting the full experience of the 90s because they listen to Nirvana's top five hits any more than I got the full experience of the 70s because I listened to Led Zeppelin's.

We enjoy that tiny sample of yesteryear's flood of mostly-crap because it reminds us of youth (which most of us remember with some degree of fondness, even if admittedly through nostalgia goggles) and because we have the luxury of looking back at only the best and ignoring the schlock.

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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby tombombodil » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:33 pm

Yeah I was about to say, the 20% of the 80/20 rule gets preserved and enjoyed for posterity, and in games specifically the degree to which things age well or poorly depends on a lot usability and general presentation. Some games can be the equivalent of a beautiful song that there are no good recordings of.

The first time I played Symphony of the Night it was like 15 years after it came out, I had no nostalgia attached to it and I thought it was excellent. Ditto all the original Super Mario games, and cabinets like Missile Command. But yeah those games are all the cream of their era's crop and I guess that's the line. I have gone back an replayed a few games that were new when I was a kid that I remember liking that were just atrocious, but I think I'm in a weird spot in that I was mostly exposed to timeless classics from a variety of generations when I was a kid instead of the stuff that was topping the charts then. So oddly pretty much all the stuff I have genuine nostalgia for was and is stuff that absolutely holds up upon revisiting because it had already gone through that before I even encountered it.
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Ikoma
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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby Ikoma » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:08 pm

It's even worse than just Sturgeon's Law for retro gaming. The video games of my youth (the 70s and 80s) are the literal beginning of mass market video games. It's not like comparing music or film from the 2010s with music from the 1970s. While there have been some technological advancements in the creating music, the basics are in place. Even the best video games of the 70s still are primitive compared to anything we've got today. A more apt comparison window would be comparing movies in the 1960s to movies back in the 20s.

Video/computer games were created clear back in the 1950s (maybe even earlier, I'm not an expert on this) and took a couple of decades to mature into a mass market business in the early 70s. Cinema was invented in the 1890s and by the 20s had become a mass market business. But 40 or 50 years later, SO MANY technological, creative, story language, etc. changes/improvements had come along that the old stuff looks super primitive. And any older movies/games that were groundbreaking have had their advances incorporated into the newer stuff, usually better.
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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby tombombodil » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:24 pm

Ikoma wrote:It's even worse than just Sturgeon's Law for retro gaming. The video games of my youth (the 70s and 80s) are the literal beginning of mass market video games. It's not like comparing music or film from the 2010s with music from the 1970s. While there have been some technological advancements in the creating music, the basics are in place. Even the best video games of the 70s still are primitive compared to anything we've got today. A more apt comparison window would be comparing movies in the 1960s to movies back in the 20s.

Video/computer games were created clear back in the 1950s (maybe even earlier, I'm not an expert on this) and took a couple of decades to mature into a mass market business in the early 70s. Cinema was invented in the 1890s and by the 20s had become a mass market business. But 40 or 50 years later, SO MANY technological, creative, story language, etc. changes/improvements had come along that the old stuff looks super primitive. And any older movies/games that were groundbreaking have had their advances incorporated into the newer stuff, usually better.


I mean yeah? But it depends. The number of people that still play versions of Tertris and Pacman everyday that are only superficially different from their original arcade versions shows that it is very possible for games to transcend that technological gap. In fact I would say that older arcade games hold up better and are more playable today than almost the entire first generation of Polygonal 3D games.

But for the most part you are correct, it is a big issue that renders games with great gameplay or great stories or both almost completely inaccessible to modern audiences.
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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby Ikoma » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:02 pm

The game in question is Dark Castle. Play though here: I *loved* this game as a teenager. I was telling my kids how awesome it was. So I looked it up to show them. They were... underwhelmed. Even I was a little... "why do i have such fond memories of this game?" But i played the shit out of it in the 80s...
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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby BottledViolence » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:33 pm

tombombodil wrote:I mean yeah? But it depends. The number of people that still play versions of Tertris and Pacman everyday that are only superficially different from their original arcade versions shows that it is very possible for games to transcend that technological gap.


Those are two good examples to dig into. Pacman was a game that was definitely a product of it's time. You had arcades where the gameplay had to churn quarters, you had the novelty of video games still going strong, you had competition, you had high scores... Without the environment, I'm not sure it would have been nearly as popular, and that applies to a lot of those early games.
Tetris is a classic time waster. It's fun but once you got home from school most kids put it away and played something else. You played it on the bus, in the car on a road trip, similar to how casual games were before the skinner box model became ubiquitous. People played the shit out of minesweeper and snake too, no one is ditching their friends and rushing home to fire those up.

In fact I would say that older arcade games hold up better and are more playable today than almost the entire first generation of Polygonal 3D games.


Oh dear god yes. Holy shit, so many bad early 3d games. But to be fair, many of us knew they were crap back then too, but the strength of franchises and novelty of them made for strong sales.


But for the most part you are correct, it is a big issue that renders games with great gameplay or great stories or both almost completely inaccessible to modern audiences.



I think the number of games with "great gameplay" has been greatly overstated. I never thought the gameplay of Super Mario Bros was that great, and still don't get the love for it. It was a good game, based on a lot of the other features, but the actual gameplay wasn't that special.

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BottledViolence
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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby BottledViolence » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:38 pm

Ikoma wrote:The game in question is Dark Castle. Play though here: I *loved* this game as a teenager. I was telling my kids how awesome it was. So I looked it up to show them. They were... underwhelmed. Even I was a little... "why do i have such fond memories of this game?" But i played the shit out of it in the 80s...

Back then, art direction was a huge part of the appeal for a lot of games. When the alternatives were equally dull platformers, one with a really cool look to it seemed much more appealing. That's all it took me to like that game back in the day.


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