Random Video Game Thoughts

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Wihzerd
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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby Wihzerd » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:20 pm

BottledViolence wrote:I don't think anyone really cares about the story on their multiplayer runs through Vermintide or L4D.

I'll have you know, the group I played with cared immensely about Ellis and his stories about his buddy Keith in L4D2.

We'd also comment about the messages scribbled on the safe room walls.

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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby tombombodil » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:42 pm

BottledViolence wrote:
Wihzerd wrote:
BottledViolence wrote:Why do so many games with a co-op mode limit the number of players to 4?

As a gameplay element:
I think the devs want you to have a reasonable chance of success, but to always feel the pressure of being hopelessly outnumbered. It's like the old parent joke about having three or more kids, but only two arms. I get similar impressions while playing tower defense games, always feeling like I don't have enough resources to build the defenses I need.

As a story telling tool:
I don't know about other games, but the Left 4 Dead series put hefty emphasis on giving each survivor an interesting personality. It's a lot easier to divide the spotlight between 4 well-written characters than 8. Think about all the advantages of GMing a campaign for a small group of PCs instead of a large one.

Having said that, I certainly wouldn't mind having the option to play in a larger group. Back in the day, I very much so would have liked to use a modded server with all 8 survivors in Left 4 Dead 2.

With limited resources, and unlimited baddies, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to scale for different sizes of groups. They already have different difficulty settings.

I can definitely see the "story" aspect. I don't agree with it, but I can see it mattering to a developer. :lol: I don't think anyone really cares about the story on their multiplayer runs through Vermintide or L4D. Story probably has more of an impact on single player, but most people just want to slaughter zombies or rats with their friends and you're screwed if you happen to have more than 3 friends.

I like the quips between the characters, Vermintide does a great job there, but they already have the dialogue, they have the interactions, why not let us use all five? Hell, Kruber even makes a comment about it in Vermintide 2!


Again increasing it from four to 5 or maaaaybe 6 would be doable without to much change. Any more than that and a lot of potential issues arise, or at the very least, the inclusion would not be remotely trivial.
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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby BottledViolence » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:59 am

tombombodil wrote:
Again increasing it from four to 5 or maaaaybe 6 would be doable without to much change. Any more than that and a lot of potential issues arise, or at the very least, the inclusion would not be remotely trivial.

The reason I brought it up was that my buddies and I had planned on getting the new Baldurs Gate, but instead of six players it's limited to four. I expect different games would have different limits both from a practical and from a gameplay perspective. But the "Four. Four is how many players is multiplayer." way things are seems kind of stupid. Vermintide being the perfect example: Oi! We're the bloody Ubersreik five! Or four, doesn't matter. :lol:

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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby tombombodil » Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:37 am

BottledViolence wrote:
tombombodil wrote:
Again increasing it from four to 5 or maaaaybe 6 would be doable without to much change. Any more than that and a lot of potential issues arise, or at the very least, the inclusion would not be remotely trivial.

The reason I brought it up was that my buddies and I had planned on getting the new Baldurs Gate, but instead of six players it's limited to four. I expect different games would have different limits both from a practical and from a gameplay perspective. But the "Four. Four is how many players is multiplayer." way things are seems kind of stupid. Vermintide being the perfect example: Oi! We're the bloody Ubersreik five! Or four, doesn't matter. :lol:


Agreed. It wouldn't be NO work, and there wouldn't be NO cost in terms of design, but it would absolutely be achievable, and I've come up against this myself where I have 5 or 6 friends in a chat for a 4 on 4 game or a 4vE game.
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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby Sith_Mafia » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:25 am

a lot of people were initially mad when Destiny decided on groups of 3 instead of 4.
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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby Chad » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:35 pm

I prefer the smaller side of things.

I remember playing WoW and being able to get 4 people consistently (before their matchmaking thing) and then trying to move heaven and earth for hours trying to pull in a 5th.

I do like how more modern games scale to the number of people in them.

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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby BottledViolence » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:06 pm

Chad wrote:I prefer the smaller side of things.

I remember playing WoW and being able to get 4 people consistently (before their matchmaking thing) and then trying to move heaven and earth for hours trying to pull in a 5th.

I do like how more modern games scale to the number of people in them.

Since Vermintide is what we played most, I keep using that example...

The AI does a decent job, so even short players, you're not completely screwed. Plus you have match maker and vote to kick, so you can leave the room open for randoms to joining then just boot them if they suck. It works very well if you have less than four players. Not at all if you have more than four. :lol:

Wihzerd wrote:
BottledViolence wrote:I don't think anyone really cares about the story on their multiplayer runs through Vermintide or L4D.

I'll have you know, the group I played with cared immensely about Ellis and his stories about his buddy Keith in L4D2.

We'd also comment about the messages scribbled on the safe room walls.


In all fairness, we love the back and forth between the Vermintide characters. We also constantly impersonate Saltzpyre. As for the actual story? Kill rats. Works just as well with 4 as it would with 5, but we could have more absurd banter opportunities. :lol:

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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby Wihzerd » Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:15 am

BottledViolence wrote: Vermintide being the perfect example: Oi! We're the bloody Ubersreik five! Or four, doesn't matter. :lol:
Oh, now that puts a bad taste in my mouth. If they bothered to make a fifth character, it should have been a five-player game.

(Switching genres, but bear with me.) One of my pet peeves while playing Knights of the Old Republic is that it always felt completely arbitrary being limited to two companions at a time. The other seven had to wait in my ship and do absolutely nothing. This is made all the worse knowing most of them will occasionally interject with an observation or opinion about the current situation if they happen to be on the mission with you at the time. Even if you do swap them out from time to time, chances are you will be missing most of those lines. It's just wasteful to have that much work put into nine characters and not let the player see most of it.

Left 4 Dead 2, on the other hand, had exactly four survivors and used them all at the same time. At no point are you left to wonder things like "Why didn't we bring Joe with us?" because Joe doesn't exist. All hands are already on deck. If you did have a fifth survivor, you wouldn't have left Joe behind. That would be stupid.

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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby tombombodil » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:34 pm

Wihzerd wrote:
BottledViolence wrote: Vermintide being the perfect example: Oi! We're the bloody Ubersreik five! Or four, doesn't matter. :lol:
Oh, now that puts a bad taste in my mouth. If they bothered to make a fifth character, it should have been a five-player game.

(Switching genres, but bear with me.) One of my pet peeves while playing Knights of the Old Republic is that it always felt completely arbitrary being limited to two companions at a time. The other seven had to wait in my ship and do absolutely nothing. This is made all the worse knowing most of them will occasionally interject with an observation or opinion about the current situation if they happen to be on the mission with you at the time. Even if you do swap them out from time to time, chances are you will be missing most of those lines. It's just wasteful to have that much work put into nine characters and not let the player see most of it.

Left 4 Dead 2, on the other hand, had exactly four survivors and used them all at the same time. At no point are you left to wonder things like "Why didn't we bring Joe with us?" because Joe doesn't exist. All hands are already on deck. If you did have a fifth survivor, you wouldn't have left Joe behind. That would be stupid.


Unless Joe was an untrustworthy asshole z)
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Re: Random Video Game Thoughts

Postby BottledViolence » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:33 pm

I've decided to try all of the old school D&D games I can find. Note that I said try, not play through. I'll see how far I can get. :lol:


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