MtG Deck Ideas

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tombombodil
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MtG Deck Ideas

Postby tombombodil » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:03 pm

Thought itd be nice to have a place to put all our various deck ideas.

Here's one I've been testing for modern. It's based around the notion that some of the most important removal in Modern is uncounterable (Abrupt Decay, Supreme Verdict). It's a standard fish shell, with a Red-White splash replacing removal spells with burn. It still has a great matchup vs other creature decks because lords + Spreading Seas means you can alpha strike them at any moment and there's not a lot they can do to stop you. And the burn really helps you close-out close games. Plus Boros charm makes combat a nightmare for you opponents, and is essentially a Counterspell for Supreme Verdict and other removal.

Without any further ado, here's the list.

4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
1 Sygg, River Cutthroat
4 Master of Waves
4 AEther Vial
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Boros Charm
2 Merrow Reejerey
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wanderwine Hub
3 Steam Vents
1 Cascade Bluffs
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Spreading Seas


I guess one last note is that the biggest loss this deck suffers from the two color splash is you just can't afford to run Mutavault of Tectonic Edge which are pretty important tools in the traditional Merfolk gameplan.
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Evil Tim
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Re: MtG Deck Ideas

Postby Evil Tim » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:48 am

Fish and Burn, I like it…
You can call it Fried Fish, though I already know you have a better nickname for it than that.

Because I like to talk about MtG:

Fish is one of the few mono color deck that plays well in a format that allows people to play three and sometimes four colors reliably (thanks to fetchlands into shocklands)
The strength of fish is that it is immune to blood moon, one of the premier hosers of the modern format as it turns all your color fixing lands into mountains. Most of the time, resolving a blood moon on turn three, and answering your opponent’s board is enough to win the game.
The other strength of fish being mono color is it gets to honestly start at 20 life. By not fetching untapped shocklands, you force your opponent to deal a full 20 damage instead of the average 15-18 damage. This sometimes buys you an extra turn against such decks that effectively start at 15-18.

The third strength of Fish is its resilience. All their lord cards are interchangeable and eventually turn any creature they play into a threat that must be answered.

I’ve been playing a lot of poker recently so this example might be lost on other people. It basically gets to play a version of poker where it can claim a flush based on their hand being full of red or black cards, in exchange it cannot claim anything else. (You can consistently get a strong hand but lose the opportunity to get the strongest hands)

By adding colors the above deck removes or dilutes some of Fishes strengths but allows the deck to attack your opponent with another vector – Burn, and gives the deck more sideboard options that completely hose some matchups. Burn such as lightning bolts and Lightning helix puts the opponent in an awkward position. Combined with AEther Vial, opponents can never be sure if a creature can show up at the end of turn, during declare blockers or in response to removal (pumping a creature past burn’s range) or if they are secretly at 6-7 less life after a couple spells resolve.

The singleton of Sygg, River Cutthroat is nice as it turns every burn spell into a cantrip, replacing itself and removing the disadvantage of burning your opponent or letting you accrue cards after swinging.

I could see single Sygg, River Guide showing up in the sideboard in place of single Kira, Glass Spinner to blank out removal and to push some creatures through. Other things I could see is the standard rest in peace as it just makes dredge sad.
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Re: MtG Deck Ideas

Postby tombombodil » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:46 am

Yeah this deck ended up getting scrapped lol. It was good, but it was strictly worse than MonoFish. (also the deck is called Navy Seals, 'cause WUR).

Honestly the card that makes the deck so well positioned generally is Spreading Seas. It can single handedly beat 60% of the meta decks in the format. Double Spreading Seas single handedly beats 80% of the meta decks in the format.

Some matchups are almost worryingly determined by whether or not you draw 1-2 Seas. Deaths Shadow for example, if I spreading seas them on t2 I'm like 65% to win, and if I spreading seas them again on turn 3 I'm like 85% to win.

Also the new merfolk that makes shit that targets my fish cost 2 more jizzes in my pants.


Unrelated discussion, Opt is getting reprinted. It's probably better than sleight of hand in any deck that runs snapcaster, but in something like storm? does it replace anything? Does it replace thoughtscour?

like, look at this list, and tell me what you would cut for Opt?

4 Baral, Chief of Compliance
3 Goblin Electromancer

4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
3 Thought Scour
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Remand
4 Gifts Ungiven
2 Past in Flames
2 Grapeshot


4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Mountain
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Re: MtG Deck Ideas

Postby Evil Tim » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:00 pm

I think Sleight of hand is mostly better than Opt as with sleight you are looking at two cards and picking the best one. Opt is looking at the top card and guessing if the next card is better.

I would factor Opt in to supplement the above as a 3/2 or a 2/2 split as you are not running Pyromancer Ascension. It will require a lot of goldfishing to get the right feel but I don’t think it is strictly better than anything already in the deck. Instead it just gives us the option of running 1-4 more cantrips to dig for rituals, reducers, Gifts Ungiven and Past in flames.

Things I would not cut is any ritual as with the banning of seething song, the deck needs those cost reducers so the other rituals make enough mana.
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Re: MtG Deck Ideas

Postby tombombodil » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:57 am

Evil Tim wrote:I think Sleight of hand is mostly better than Opt as with sleight you are looking at two cards and picking the best one. Opt is looking at the top card and guessing if the next card is better.

I would factor Opt in to supplement the above as a 3/2 or a 2/2 split as you are not running Pyromancer Ascension. It will require a lot of goldfishing to get the right feel but I don’t think it is strictly better than anything already in the deck. Instead it just gives us the option of running 1-4 more cantrips to dig for rituals, reducers, Gifts Ungiven and Past in flames.

Things I would not cut is any ritual as with the banning of seething song, the deck needs those cost reducers so the other rituals make enough mana.
So I had a long conversation with Mark about it, and while we can to a similar conclusion that it's close either way and it'll take a lot of testing to figure out, there are lists that's get away with 0-2 remands in the maindeck because it's so resilient to disruption anyway.

So we considered something like this,

-2 Remand
-1 Thoughtscour
-1 Mountain

+4 Opt

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Re: MtG Deck Ideas

Postby Evil Tim » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:58 pm

I can get behind on those trades. Though I am glad you didn’t opt to take out more remands because I like the synergy it has with Grapeshot->Remand-> Grapeshot or Remand and Baral, Chief of Compliance.

Any thoughts at putting something cute in the sideboard like a Gift’s Package? Granted they both get hit by a Relic of Progenitus, Scavenging Ooze or Tormod’s Crypt.

For anyone wondering why he took out a land should look up The Xerox principle.
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Re: MtG Deck Ideas

Postby tombombodil » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:21 pm

Evil Tim wrote:I can get behind on those trades. Though I am glad you didn’t opt to take out more remands because I like the synergy it has with Grapeshot->Remand-> Grapeshot or Remand and Baral, Chief of Compliance.

Any thoughts at putting something cute in the sideboard like a Gift’s Package? Granted they both get hit by a Relic of Progenitus, Scavenging Ooze or Tormod’s Crypt.

For anyone wondering why he took out a land should look up The Xerox principle.


nah you dont have enough slots to run a switch board. the closest thing is empty the warrens.
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Re: MtG Deck Ideas

Postby Evil Tim » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:57 pm

I dug up the articles in question about the Xerox Principle

http://bopmtg-bopmtg.rhcloud.com/blog/turbo-xerox-rule
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Re: MtG Deck Ideas

Postby tombombodil » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:33 pm

New set w/ fishies means new fish variants:

Temur:

4 Cursecatcher
4 Kumena's Speaker
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Merrow Reejerey
1 Kopala, Warden of Waves
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner

3 Lightning Bolt
2 Vapor Snag
3 Spreading Seas
3 Aether Vial

4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Mutavault
2 Steam Vents
2 Breeding Pool
3 Island
1 Forest


Simic:

4 Cursecatcher
4 Kumena's Speaker
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Merrow Reejerey
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Kopala, Warden of Waves

4 Aether Vial
4 Spreading Seas
2 Vapor Snag

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault
2 Botanical Sanctum
2 Breeding Pool
3 Island
1 Forest

They basically sacrifice some of the tempo-control and absurd haymakers of mono U fish for a more hyper aggressive beatdown strategy
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Re: MtG Deck Ideas

Postby Evil Tim » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:58 pm

Any sideboard goodies come from going Simic or Temur?

Don't get me wrong I do like Bolt and A. Kommand
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