|
It is currently Tue May 21, 2013 6:01 am
|
View unanswered posts | View active topics
| Author |
Message |
|
DocTWisted
Oboe's Crop Duster Co-Pilot
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:03 pm Posts: 4628 Location: Hollister, CA
|
 Re: When to rest?
Justicar06 wrote: Burning wrote: DocTWisted wrote: Except I found out how he blocks that amassing of wealth....
OK, either your GM is the most painfully literal minded individual that I have ever heard of, or he wants this to be a purely tactical exercise and is doing his best to off-load all the work on the players. I'm not sure whether I'm more surprised at the way he does things or that he's managed to form a group of regulars. That's silly, blocking amassing of wealth through artificial means is well not stupid but it can be possible to stop wealth amassing if you do other things than imposing the books on people. I wonder though if that was the GM originally or how much of it is actually the players. If they hated death being a big deal and simply getting rich off their dead then the GM might have imposed that cap to prevent all kinds of shenanigans to get rich quick by offing each other.  All I can do is guess, I've played all of 3 sessions with him and his various players so far. I do know, however, that the GM is a genuine aarakocra, having started when DnD was first published. IIRC, the amount of wealth you had amassed was the determination of your level back then, instead of having a separate scale of experience points. So it might be that he started playing with the two directly tied to one another and is just used to that. Also, the loot in these adventure paths is sparse, to say the least. After the first module, most of the players had nothing, the one enchanted ring found and one gem that's part of a larger puzzle were the only items we found the whole adventure, so really we got a fair amount of cash leveling up without having to fight anything extra for it. I have noticed that one of the players at the table is constantly trying to rules lawyer his way into getting an additional edge at the table, which I see grating on the GM a bit at times and also leaves me longing to get back to the action. Because Pathfinder is new to me and I haven't had time to read the rules cover to cover, I'm stopping to ask questions time to time about what I can do mechanically on my turn. The difference is, when I ask, I get the ruling, nod and continue on. When he gets the ruling, he'll start flipping through the Core Rulebook trying to find a cogent counterargument and the whole game will be paused. Some of these rulings have been repeat ones, like "a druid's familiar is not intelligent enough to provide a flanking bonus," "You can't trip a flying creature," and "Taking something from your backpack is a full round action." There was an extended discussion after Saturday's session, because the party had been crippled by various enemies that had stat damage attacks, and we had no available way to recover other than to delay for healing... which would take a full week or longer. He argued that the module was unbalanced in having these encounters, or that we should have been given a heads up that they were there so we could have shopped accordingly. The GM pointed out that there was a Cleric's spell that healed stat damage faster, but then I had to remind him that I couldn't get it until I was one level higher. I'm not sure how (or if) that particular difference gets resolved, since we are once again on a "ticking clock" adventure path, this time because children were kidnapped, but the party is in no condition to continue fighting.
_________________
Freemage wrote: I... I want to live in the universe you just described.
King Lear wrote: When we are born, we cry that we are come to this great stage of fools.
|
| Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:42 am |
|
 |
|
VaMinion
Myopic Sycophant
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 4:42 pm Posts: 2854 Location: Virginia
|
 Re: When to rest?
Quote: "a druid's familiar is not intelligent enough to provide a flanking bonus," "You can't trip a flying creature," and "Taking something from your backpack is a full round action." Um...your rules lawyer friend might be on to something. Animals flank just like anything else, last I checked, and it's a move action to pull something out of storage. If the GM wants to house rule it, fine, but I'm not sure the problem is the player on that one. Quote: I'm not sure how (or if) that particular difference gets resolved, since we are once again on a "ticking clock" adventure path, this time because children were kidnapped, but the party is in no condition to continue fighting. That's when I'd take my break anyway. You're no good to them dead, and if the GM's plot can't survive the party resting he needs to revise it.
_________________ "American politics has become both entertainment and identity at the same time. It should be neither." - Chad
|
| Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:25 am |
|
 |
|
illyrus
Wayne's Batman Costume ASSistant
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:54 pm Posts: 310
|
 Re: When to rest?
It really seems like a game that would be better suited to play in 4E with the healing surge system.
Though if I were to play in a Pathfinder game like that I think I would fairly quickly gravitate over to the witch as a caster as they can hex an infinite times per day and get healing spells as well as a good bit of wizard spells as well.
I'd then spend all my gold every level on charged magical items like wands. You can get a lot of mileage out of a wand/staff/potions etc when you can replace them effectively for free every level. This last bit of advice would work equally well for the cleric though. If he doesn't like that idea ask if you can take the item creation feat(s) and say you made them in between adventures. A wand of Cure Light Wounds can top off a party after every combat after all.
_________________ The reading comprehension for forum users is reaching the level that we need to start conveying points with pony pictures. Whoops, we're already there.
|
| Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:59 pm |
|
 |
|
Mobius04
I am the story stick
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:00 am Posts: 1442 Location: Streetsboro, OH
|
 Re: When to rest?
It sounds like each person at the table wants something different out of the game and you are the only one pulling for compromise. Long term this problem gets solve by either appealing to the group and being a social manipulator for change, or your players hijack the game. I'd reccomend talking with the GM and try and find out why he chooses the mechanics that he does. What does it get him, what good experiences he's had with them, and what he expects those mechanics to produce in the current game. It sounds like he's one to stick within his comfort zone and not branch out of what he likes. The alternative would be to figure out what feeling he gets from being in his comfort zone and convince him that the changes you want can produce that feeling with the right technique.
Your rules lawyer sounds like he can be an ally in this. He wants an edge, he wants to make the rules system work for him. He has the GM's ear because the game goes on pause. I would just decide something and tinker with the rules after the game, but the rules lawyer can get the GM to stop and pay attention to him. Try and gauge that RL's willingness to cooperate. If he knows the system inside and out and can be won over to more cooperative game play styles, the two of you can strike a balance. You want the group to cooperate and have less meat grinder sessions, and this rules lawyer could be one to help set up tactical combat. Perhaps having the RL set up some example combat sessions that can show he can set up fun and engaging combat. Since the GM didn't have the time or inclination to read through the module, you can appeal that this would save time and effort during the sessions.
Who knows. Maybe the Rules lawyer setting up combat and the GM saving time might build the communication you need to get this group to work together.
_________________ We can find moral truths in the concrete data of experience. - Jane McGonagal Family is Thicker Than Blood.
|
| Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:15 pm |
|
 |
|
DocTWisted
Oboe's Crop Duster Co-Pilot
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:03 pm Posts: 4628 Location: Hollister, CA
|
 Re: When to rest?
I never said he hadn't read the module. He's read it, but either:
1) The rules for some of the monsters have changed since the bestiary was last revised, and now it's really more of a CR 3 even though it's labelled for 2nd level players, or
2) The author of this module wanted a very high mortality rate, forcing players to charge in because of "ticking clock" mechanics despite stat drains and curse-inducing monsters that 2nd-level characters can NOT be adequately equipped to recover from.
After the last session, which ended in one player character short of a TPK because of these demon bat-head-things that paralyzed victims with a scream, then kissed them to pass their curse on to turn that adventurer into one of them, I (calmly) pointed out to the GM that every game session ended with the entire party either dead or nearly there, and that the solutions to give the party a chance in this dungeon all started at level 3 (The divine spells Lesser Restoration and Remove Curse). The rules lawyer couldn't make that session, but I got through to him on the issue (in part because I approached it as someone who's GM'd myself, and kept the conversation on "we need X and Y to survive these encounters, and they don't become available for another level). So he agreed to let the party advance to level 3 early, because otherwise the dungeon would be rather crowded with all the 2nd-level adventuring parties grinding through it.
_________________
Freemage wrote: I... I want to live in the universe you just described.
King Lear wrote: When we are born, we cry that we are come to this great stage of fools.
|
| Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:18 am |
|
 |
|
Freemage
ZCE's Grandmother's Quantum Cat
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:02 pm Posts: 5552
|
 Re: When to rest?
DocTWisted wrote: I never said he hadn't read the module. He's read it, but either:
1) The rules for some of the monsters have changed since the bestiary was last revised, and now it's really more of a CR 3 even though it's labelled for 2nd level players, or
2) The author of this module wanted a very high mortality rate, forcing players to charge in because of "ticking clock" mechanics despite stat drains and curse-inducing monsters that 2nd-level characters can NOT be adequately equipped to recover from.
After the last session, which ended in one player character short of a TPK because of these demon bat-head-things that paralyzed victims with a scream, then kissed them to pass their curse on to turn that adventurer into one of them, I (calmly) pointed out to the GM that every game session ended with the entire party either dead or nearly there, and that the solutions to give the party a chance in this dungeon all started at level 3 (The divine spells Lesser Restoration and Remove Curse). The rules lawyer couldn't make that session, but I got through to him on the issue (in part because I approached it as someone who's GM'd myself, and kept the conversation on "we need X and Y to survive these encounters, and they don't become available for another level). So he agreed to let the party advance to level 3 early, because otherwise the dungeon would be rather crowded with all the 2nd-level adventuring parties grinding through it. Oh, yeah... vargouilles SUCK. One of them is fugly, but doable, at EL 2. You MIGHT lose one PC to the curse before the others kill it, but it's not guaranteed. But more than one or two at EL 2? Hell, no.
_________________ You say "wankery" like it's a bad thing.
|
| Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:49 pm |
|
 |
|
DocTWisted
Oboe's Crop Duster Co-Pilot
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:03 pm Posts: 4628 Location: Hollister, CA
|
 Re: When to rest?
Freemage wrote: DocTWisted wrote: I never said he hadn't read the module. He's read it, but either:
1) The rules for some of the monsters have changed since the bestiary was last revised, and now it's really more of a CR 3 even though it's labelled for 2nd level players, or
2) The author of this module wanted a very high mortality rate, forcing players to charge in because of "ticking clock" mechanics despite stat drains and curse-inducing monsters that 2nd-level characters can NOT be adequately equipped to recover from.
After the last session, which ended in one player character short of a TPK because of these demon bat-head-things that paralyzed victims with a scream, then kissed them to pass their curse on to turn that adventurer into one of them, I (calmly) pointed out to the GM that every game session ended with the entire party either dead or nearly there, and that the solutions to give the party a chance in this dungeon all started at level 3 (The divine spells Lesser Restoration and Remove Curse). The rules lawyer couldn't make that session, but I got through to him on the issue (in part because I approached it as someone who's GM'd myself, and kept the conversation on "we need X and Y to survive these encounters, and they don't become available for another level). So he agreed to let the party advance to level 3 early, because otherwise the dungeon would be rather crowded with all the 2nd-level adventuring parties grinding through it. Oh, yeah... vargouilles SUCK. One of them is fugly, but doable, at EL 2. You MIGHT lose one PC to the curse before the others kill it, but it's not guaranteed. But more than one or two at EL 2? Hell, no. We had two, in a room that contained a magnetized pillar that pinned everyone to it every time they failed a strength check. Also, I think the listing he had gave a higher AC because I missed with several 13 attack rolls.
_________________
Freemage wrote: I... I want to live in the universe you just described.
King Lear wrote: When we are born, we cry that we are come to this great stage of fools.
|
| Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:20 pm |
|
 |
|
Freemage
ZCE's Grandmother's Quantum Cat
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:02 pm Posts: 5552
|
 Re: When to rest?
Okay, someone didn't do their homework, then--hostile conditions like that add at LEAST one to the CR of the challenge, if not two or three. Coupled with heightened stats? That was a CR 4-5 challenge, easy. For an EL 2 group, that's insane, unless it's meant to be a boss fight.
_________________ You say "wankery" like it's a bad thing.
|
| Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:15 am |
|
 |
|
DocTWisted
Oboe's Crop Duster Co-Pilot
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:03 pm Posts: 4628 Location: Hollister, CA
|
 Re: When to rest?
Freemage wrote: Okay, someone didn't do their homework, then--hostile conditions like that add at LEAST one to the CR of the challenge, if not two or three. Coupled with heightened stats? That was a CR 4-5 challenge, easy. For an EL 2 group, that's insane, unless it's meant to be a boss fight. 1) It was not a boss fight, it was a trapped room on the way to the boss, and it was clearly such before we stepped into it, because there were skeletons everywhere minus the skulls, and dented pieces of armor and metal shields surrounding the base of the pillar. I actually guessed correctly OOC that it was some sort of magnetism based trap, but before I could have my character verify that, our party's barbarian just walked right in and triggered it. 2) As with all encounters that have had me scratching my head and asking him if he's got the challenge rating correct, the GM's response has been "I'm just following what's in the module." But this module (Crown of the Kobold King) was actually made for DnD 3.5, and Pathfinder has made so many subtle changes to the rules that it may not be at the same EL any longer, which is what I've finally convinced him of by pointing out just how poorly the party has managed and how much of it would have gone easier were the party one level more advanced. 3) Edited to add: Apparently, this module was MEANT to be really deadly. I was looking over some of its reviews in Paizo (Not gonna download it, don't want spoilers), and for a low level party, TPK's are quite possible... also apparently it has typographical errors that can ruin the party, like one of the opponents having an attack damage listing of 2D4+10 instead of 2D4+1.
_________________
Freemage wrote: I... I want to live in the universe you just described.
King Lear wrote: When we are born, we cry that we are come to this great stage of fools.
|
| Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:10 am |
|
 |
|
Justicar06
'something' per Dan's request
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:53 pm Posts: 66
|
 Re: When to rest?
DocTWisted wrote: Freemage wrote: Okay, someone didn't do their homework, then--hostile conditions like that add at LEAST one to the CR of the challenge, if not two or three. Coupled with heightened stats? That was a CR 4-5 challenge, easy. For an EL 2 group, that's insane, unless it's meant to be a boss fight. 1) It was not a boss fight, it was a trapped room on the way to the boss, and it was clearly such before we stepped into it, because there were skeletons everywhere minus the skulls, and dented pieces of armor and metal shields surrounding the base of the pillar. I actually guessed correctly OOC that it was some sort of magnetism based trap, but before I could have my character verify that, our party's barbarian just walked right in and triggered it. 2) As with all encounters that have had me scratching my head and asking him if he's got the challenge rating correct, the GM's response has been "I'm just following what's in the module." But this module (Crown of the Kobold King) was actually made for DnD 3.5, and Pathfinder has made so many subtle changes to the rules that it may not be at the same EL any longer, which is what I've finally convinced him of by pointing out just how poorly the party has managed and how much of it would have gone easier were the party one level more advanced. 3) Edited to add: Apparently, this module was MEANT to be really deadly. I was looking over some of its reviews in Paizo (Not gonna download it, don't want spoilers), and for a low level party, TPK's are quite possible... also apparently it has typographical errors that can ruin the party, like one of the opponents having an attack damage listing of 2D4+10 instead of 2D4+1. Be intentionally deadly can be fun; deadly because no one bothered to edit is just dumb you'd think that kind of crap would be caught beforehand
_________________ I never fight fair, fair fights are far to easy to lose.
http://hambonehonestopinion.blogspot.com/
http://www.lasttimeonvideogames.com/
|
| Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:33 am |
|
 |
|
Who is online |
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum
|
|