Edit: messed up the quote block.

That's a good justification, but it dosen't give me a reason. Why do I want to sacrifice the suspension of disbelief I spent so much energy and time crafting for the sake of, what amounts to 'covering for details I don't have', it's just not worth the payoff to me.

My players can contribute by writing backstories I can mine for data, and directionality in their play that gives me inspiration for making changes to the plot, but asking them to flesh out my NPCs mid session... I place more value on what I've built in terms of immersion than I do on spending some time preparing NPCs before each campaign/session.

I think this is where I'm coming from too, Jinx.

~PS

Exactly. Because I was unclear, I'm the GM in question most of the time. I've had to do this, and I hate how it ruins the flow of the session.

My cast of NPCs? It's just that, my cast. If I can't be bothered to create an important NPC before game time, then he's obviously not important enough to include at this juncture. Do I take input from my players once the NPC has hit the ground? Absolutely. But that's volunteered by the players as the interactions go on, based on said interactions. It's not a pre-requisite for the scene to begin or continue.

As a player, it's much harder to me to believe that it's a living, breathing, functional world if I know that important NPCs are just popping out of the ground as needed. I like gathering information, solving mysteries, whatever. That's impossible to do when, for all I know, the puppet master doesn't even exist in any meaningful form.

I would conversely say, I don't know beforehand which NPCs are going to important and which aren't. I can make some educated guesses--Bob the Bartender probably isn't going to be the lynchpin of the plot--but at best it's hit and miss. This goes both for NPCs invented before the game and ones created on the spot.

Glad I'm in the same boat here. I listened to that and thought, "Yeah, I gotta take the Chris line on this". At least when it comes to NPC's. I can't really see how you make this work to be honest.

NPC walks up to you and he's Biff the Understudy until the players tell you what he is? Huh? Why is here there at all then. And, if the details the players add don't really matter, and don't change the purpose of this NPC, then, well, why bother in the first place?

Now, I love it when players add stuff to the game. Just this particular example doesn't work for me. Or, rather, I'd have to see it in play to really grok what's going on.

OTOH, something like The Dirty Dungeon is just a really cool idea, so I'm not exactly against the idea of players being involved in campaign creation. Just, during direct play? Not so sure.

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Oh, BTW, jim pinto is going to have an infarction when he sees this thread title. I used to see him correct people constantly on other forums. All caps? Nice.

I wouldn't use the particular example because the rest of the guys in my group are absolutely terrible at coming up with names. Not in the sense that the names they eventually come up with are terrible, but it takes long and painfully mental struggle to actually get there. (I wouldn't mind as a player since I don't really have the problem, but I would probably be the only one giving suggestions.) :-)

By the way, in terms of "hipster" games, I would recommend any group to run a full game (the default five sessions) of Prime Time Adventures even if it's not your real preference or the style of game you'd want to be running in the long run, simply because if you get it working, it works as an exercise in opening some circuits in the players' brains that will remain open. We're now back to mostly playing more "traditional" games (in terms of systems at least) but I can see a marked difference in play from after having played a couple of different "hipster" games in the interim.

EDIT: The above probably sounds more elitist than it's meant to. Also, a better way to put it might be that it opens a new perspective that you can take home with you and apply as it suits.

For the same reason you would adopt an accent, describe a scar, mention the smell of food in a kitchen. It adds flavor.

To all the people who object, I have a question. Is it just as bad if the player simply offers the detail up to you, you don't ask for it? Example, NPC courtier comes in to greet the party. One of the players is playing a guy familiar with this court and before you can give the NPC's name "My good friend Count Aldolfo, it's good to see you. I see your limp is getting better."
Now you didn't plan for him to be named Aldolfo, be a count or have a limp, but those details have all been offered up to you. Would you be offended at the player taking control or grateful for adding a bit of color and flavor to your world.

....and this is me, too. In character creation (PCs and NPCs), the part that always takes me the longest is the name - I always want to pick something that really seems to fit the character and the setting.

~PS

I probably wouldn't object to that, but I basically would never have an NPC approach them without having a name and at least a couple of personality cues. If the player suddenly offered that stuff, I might think it was cool, but it would be stepping on the toes of what was already in my head. In that case, I would probably say something (ooc) like "oh, well this isn't Aldolfo...", but I'll probably have this NPC the player made up make an appearance later when I've had 5 minutes to think about what Aldolfo might be like and where would be an appropriate time/place for such an encounter. Maybe the next court rep that comes to them is Aldolfo, and maybe he has some other information for them...

Like I said before, I love players contributing, but I want to have the final word on where and how that contribution is implemented because I need to keep this setting consistent in my head.

Edit: Now, if the player said to me "I'm going to go find my friend Aldolfo" as opposed to hijacking the NPC i was planning to have approach them, I'm much more likely to roll with that.

~PS