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 Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor 
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ZCE's Grandmother's Quantum Cat
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Post Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Knaight wrote:
Needs more actual reasonable armor. Specifically, it needs a lot less oddly formfitting mail on bare skin. Still, its a step up from most art.


I am confuddled. I went back and looked--closely--for evidence of bare skin under the mail, and only found one (besides the chainmail bikini girl being mocked by the seriously armored warriors) that could even begin to be described that way, and even she could easily have a shirt on--just one that doesn't go quite as far down her arms as the mail (I'm referring to the snow barbarian pic, page 4).

Which ones are you perceiving significant amounts of bare flesh/metal contact on?

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Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:50 pm
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Post Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Freemage wrote:
Knaight wrote:
Needs more actual reasonable armor. Specifically, it needs a lot less oddly formfitting mail on bare skin. Still, its a step up from most art.


I am confuddled. I went back and looked--closely--for evidence of bare skin under the mail, and only found one (besides the chainmail bikini girl being mocked by the seriously armored warriors) that could even begin to be described that way, and even she could easily have a shirt on--just one that doesn't go quite as far down her arms as the mail (I'm referring to the snow barbarian pic, page 4).

Which ones are you perceiving significant amounts of bare flesh/metal contact on?

Short version: There should be thick padding under the mail, which prohibits certain traits that show up in quite a few. Among said traits:
Sleeves that hang on the arms without a cushion between them. They should angle downward.
Clearly visible individual breasts. A general outward protrusion, maybe, two of them? No.
Mail along the bare neck without being pushed out by padding.
General curvature. Padding makes this much less pronounced.
Thin arms. After padding, arms don't look thin.

Now, some examples:
Image Mail right on hands, mail right on neck, two pronounced breasts, heavy curvature, thin arms.
Image
Thin upper arms.
Image
That barely qualifies as padding, on the arms.
Image
Look above what she is trying to pass off as a breast plate. Clearly there is no padding under there. Also, the breast plate itself is terrible, a hit near the center will be directed upwards at the throat.
Image
Look at her right arm. Now notice the general figure shape in the chest area.

All of these are pretty bad, with the possible exception of Eowyn. That said, if you can get past the armor, they are all worth reposting.

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Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:38 pm
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Post Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
:agree:

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Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:35 pm
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Post Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Hm... I think I see your general point, at least. And the fourth one in your list struck me as very bizarre, in general, so I'll accept your further points, yeah.

That said, at least the first one you indicated, I'm a bit more tolerant of the "no padding" concept. Not necessarily no clothing underneath, just no padding of the sort you say should be there, for one simple reason--elf. That suggests a classic "mithril/elven mail" scenario, where the primary concern would be a slight bit of protection from chafing, which could be accounted for with simple cloth, and where the mail itself is about as thin and light as cloth.

That is, it's not 'realistic' in the way most of the others are striving to be, but it at least fits with the general tropes of the fantasy genre without having to fall trap to its cliches.

The Snow Barbarian one I did notice the arm on, as I said. However, there I think I'm more inclined to forgive the chest-contours, simply because of the weight of the strap and chain pulling the metal inward slightly. That said, I'd almost expect her to have to remove the chain and fur cloak before engaging in combat, simply because if it IS that heavy, it's going to play havoc with her balance.

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Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:09 pm
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Post Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Image

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Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:18 pm
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Post Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Freemage wrote:
That said, at least the first one you indicated, I'm a bit more tolerant of the "no padding" concept. Not necessarily no clothing underneath, just no padding of the sort you say should be there, for one simple reason--elf. That suggests a classic "mithril/elven mail" scenario, where the primary concern would be a slight bit of protection from chafing, which could be accounted for with simple cloth, and where the mail itself is about as thin and light as cloth.

Here's the thing. Even if that mail didn't break, getting stabbed could simply bury a bunch of metal links way under your skin, which is pretty much bad news.

As for thIs:
Image
Yeah, its just wrong everywhere. I was focusing on the mail, but that isn't even the worst part. The helmet is terrible, the breast plate metal lingerie, the shield way, way too thick for something that large and metal. For that matter, it should be wooden. Also, whoever fits in that armor has some screwy proportions.

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Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:35 pm
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Post Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Knaight wrote:
Freemage wrote:
That said, at least the first one you indicated, I'm a bit more tolerant of the "no padding" concept. Not necessarily no clothing underneath, just no padding of the sort you say should be there, for one simple reason--elf. That suggests a classic "mithril/elven mail" scenario, where the primary concern would be a slight bit of protection from chafing, which could be accounted for with simple cloth, and where the mail itself is about as thin and light as cloth.

Here's the thing. Even if that mail didn't break, getting stabbed could simply bury a bunch of metal links way under your skin, which is pretty much bad news.


I think we'll need to agree to disagree on this one. ;) Again, I'm allowing for a fantastic element, precisely because it's a definitely fantastic character. Note that the originator of the concept of mithril armor, Tolkien, had it worn by the Hobbits underneath their regular clothing, pretty much flush against the skin. This suggests that the normal issues simply do not apply. I'm more willing to be impressed by the fact, then, that the armor still covers all the vital points--arguably, it even covers the neck in a fashion that would be impossible with 'normal' armor.

Quote:
As for thIs:
(*Snip image of giraffe-woman in boobplate*)
Yeah, its just wrong everywhere. I was focusing on the mail, but that isn't even the worst part. The helmet is terrible, the breast plate metal lingerie, the shield way, way too thick for something that large and metal. For that matter, it should be wooden. Also, whoever fits in that armor has some screwy proportions.

Yeah, that's easily the worst pic in the collection, and really doesn't belong there at all, for all the reasons you've stated.

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Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:10 am
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Post Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
A woman in real armor would look just like a man. Boobs would be strapped tight to the chest to prevent bounce. Also, active women who fight don't have boobs to speak of. The only consideration I can see being the curve. They made armor for fat men that belled out on the lower part for the big belly... for a woman they might make a slight curve upwards, but that's it.

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Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:19 am
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Post Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Graytigeress wrote:
A woman in real armor would look just like a man. Boobs would be strapped tight to the chest to prevent bounce. Also, active women who fight don't have boobs to speak of. The only consideration I can see being the curve. They made armor for fat men that belled out on the lower part for the big belly... for a woman they might make a slight curve upwards, but that's it.

Exactly, at least if a sufficiently covering helmet is involved in any way. Considering the armor shown, in many cases, a bassinet or earlier "great helm" can basically be expected. Now, with the lighter armors biological sex may well be visible, and as a full tight binding isn't necessary for strenuous activity -consider sport bras- some slight upper curve being visible through mail is plausible. Plate though? No way, the breastplate protrudes fairly far out in front of the chest anyways, as the angle makes thrusts that much harder to connect.

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Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:33 am
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Post Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Graytigeress wrote:
A woman in real armor would look just like a man. Boobs would be strapped tight to the chest to prevent bounce. Also, active women who fight don't have boobs to speak of. The only consideration I can see being the curve. They made armor for fat men that belled out on the lower part for the big belly... for a woman they might make a slight curve upwards, but that's it.

Well, not just like. You can still tell the difference, because breasts don't just vanish when you slap a plate on them; there still needs to be space, and it can't be just a slight curve unless the woman is really flat-chested. Tight armor means you can't breathe - if you can't breathe in huge, full torso bellows, you die.

The hips and shoulder ratios are also different.

Image

That's a woman in the foreground; even from behind I can tell that.

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Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:07 am
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