Just dropped! Enjoy.

Episode 29

Dan's great, but I've got to disagree with him on the gay bullying thing. While all bullying is very damaging and does untold harm to people and society, anti-gay bullying is special in some respects. Gay high schoolers are going through a number of special pressures, whether they are directly bullied or not. Very often, they are trying to keep their sexuality secret from their parents, their friends, and their peers. They're often receiving social signals from their church or just society as a whole that they are freaks and are immoral. Too often, they have no place to go, and when they do, they risk special judgment from bigots, be they parents or other authority figures. Bullying of gays is frequently considered more acceptable by some elements of society.

Gay teens are more likely to be bullied than non-gay teens, and they are far more likely to commit suicide, a phenomenon generally driven by bullying. I think that while Dan is right to point out that non-gay victims of bullying should be helped, I think that gay teens are simply more at risk of the harms for special reasons.

Gotta both agree and disagree (and both strongly!) with the previous poster. I'll qualify by saying that I am a bisexual male, and while my discovery and acceptance of my sexual identity was a bit easier than most, I've certainly had my struggles along the way.

The point wasn't that the hardships that homosexual kids face should be marginalized, or even equalized in the public eye with every other type of person. The point was that bullying- the specific act of bullying- toward a specific group of people should be no more or less recognized than toward another.

This is an issue similar to reverse racism. I'm reminded of a scene in the show Boston Public where a white student sets up a bake sale, selling cookies for a dollar- to white kids. To asians, he sells them for 75 cents. To blacks, 50, and to hispanic kids, only a quarter. His reasoning is that his prices match average racial incomes (or something similar, he gave a very benign justification to his actions). Still, the predictable thing happened, and he got his ass handed to him by a couple of minority students for his stunt.

Why should the troubles of gay kids be more emphasized? Within the gay community, certainly, because that's where people are most able to identify with those kids and help them through the issues specific to them, but for society at large? Feels like our cookies are only fifty cents when someone starts spouting to the world "stop bullying- OF GAYS!"

Find me someone who hasn't had something they felt ashamed of that they tried to hide from their parents or peers as a kid. Find a bullied child who doesn't feel social pressure to conform and stop being a freak (in whatever way they are "freaky", be it weight, chosen hobby, sexual identity, height, hair color, that one freckle on the bridge of their nose...)

This is getting considerably longer than I'd intended it to go, so I'll try to shut up soon. I do agree that there are situations specific to bi- and homosexual kids that those that care need to realize and learn to address. All the situations you mentioned, Nanoboy, are quite real, and very psychologically dangerous. As a bisexual kid in a private religious school, I know I had nowhere to turn. Had I come out, I would have been expelled- I saw it happen to a girl a grade above me. During my earlier high school years there, I was fairly bothered by any gay-oriented bullying that came my way, and I actually slammed a kid against a wall fairly hard once because of it. The word 'faggot' still grates at me a little bit (though I do admit to a slight "n-word"-like guilty pleasure in using it... but I'll drop that hot potato immediately.

However, the same is true for fat kids. The names, the social pressures, the symptoms are different; the effect is the same. True also for nerds- who here hasn't experienced a little nerd-based bullying in their day? Don't forget straight kids who look, act or sound a little too close to the opposite gender. Don't forget girls who develop too fast, too slow, don't grow a large enough chest, grow breasts too large. Don't forget the one guy in the locker room who hasn't got his pubes yet. The lone black kid in a white school. The lone hispanic kid who doesn't speak english very well. The kid who smells a little funny and whose clothes are a little dirty because sunday is the day when the family goes to the laundromat and they may not have had enough quarters this week.

Final point and TL;DR: No, gays are not special. While they are subject to many psychologically damaging situations, so are all the other victims of bullying. The answer is not a blanket statement highlighting one particular group and saying WE SHOULD FIX THEM TODAY! That is offensive and ineffective. The answer is to have others who have survived what those kids are going through mentor them. Let the higher-ups deal with bullying as a whole, and let the individuals, the teachers, parents and community members deal with the specifics according to their experience.





I was gonna comment on the rest of the episode, but.... bloody hell, that was long, sorry. Great episode. Obviously it hit home for me (Dan, I almost blinded a kid who was bullying me as well), and I appreciate hearing the discussion. Now I'm gonna go roll my method 1 gnome bully.

So - I am catching up on the podcasts and unfortunately this was where I started. lol

For me - everything stops when people start talking about social issues like this. The same thing happened when FtB recorded their first set of Gen Con episodes. I went on a rant to a similar topic. There is a reason why politics and religion don't get discussed.

So here is my ten second rant about a topic I am extremely passionate about:

Up front - all bullying needs to stop and the douche rockets that say that this is a "rite of passage" or "kids needs to toughen up"
a) were probably bullies themselves
b) have no souls

There are special circumstances that surround the bullying of queer kids that other bullied kids don't have to deal with. I use "queer" because that can denote kids that are actually gay and those that aren't, but are perceived as such.

Currently (I wish I was exaggerating on this):

Kids are being kicked out of their homes because their parents find out they are gay. - So your parents and home are perceived as not a safe haven.

An addendum to the parents are those that send their kids to "ex-gay" programs, which have been shown to do more harm than good and do not work (American Psychological Association). Just this week the dude that published the study showing that the "ex-gay" system works, retracted his findings.

There are school districts that want a "neutral" policy on discussing gays - meaning teachers cannot mention it in school. Anoka-Hennepin school just recently grudgingly removed their policy when there was no other way to explain the suicides of six kids in that school over a two-year span. It was proved that they were bullied because of real or perceived sexual orientation. - So the adults in school are not a safe haven

When all else fails, you would think that a church would be a sanctuary. However, even though this has gotten far better recently, many churches are fighting to be able to preach that gays are unnatural and evil. - So the church is unsafe.

There is also the general miasma of commentary and BS that is an ongoing problem.

So there are emotional walls coming down, blocking every avenue of respite. And this is even before the effects of the bully come into play. That is why there is such a focus on the effects of bullying gay kids.

I honestly don't trust any survey proscribing motive to suicides. The left will say that more gays kill themselves than straights. The right will say that sexual orientation does not really factor. I have had two boyfriends commit suicide and I almost did myself. Reasoning and motive sort of go out the window when you are in that state of despair. Did sexual orientation have a factor? Sure. And I am sure that in at least one of the suicides, it played a major factor. But in the end, it is a sense of entrapment that finally drives it home.

I hope I have provided some insight into the issues surrounding bullying of gay kids, because bullying a gay kid or a straight kid for any reason is equally cruel. It is the nonsense that the adults bring to the table that make it a more dangerous and tricky situation for gay kids.

I will repeat what I said on the old FtB forums those years ago when a similar issue arose. I don't want to be the gay police and I don't want to inhibit people's speech. However this is a really touchy subject with many mines. Please tread carefully, because the wounds that are opened in grade school routinely get re-opened afterwards by adults. As a gay adult you learn to use your scarred skin as armor and it is easier to deal with people who have misconceptions as to what you are about.

Now on to gaming!