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Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
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Azhrei Vep
Hussey Fluffer
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:44 pm Posts: 18260 Location: Sitting in Judgement from the Oval Office
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 Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Freemage wrote: Knaight wrote: Freemage wrote: That said, at least the first one you indicated, I'm a bit more tolerant of the "no padding" concept. Not necessarily no clothing underneath, just no padding of the sort you say should be there, for one simple reason--elf. That suggests a classic "mithril/elven mail" scenario, where the primary concern would be a slight bit of protection from chafing, which could be accounted for with simple cloth, and where the mail itself is about as thin and light as cloth. Here's the thing. Even if that mail didn't break, getting stabbed could simply bury a bunch of metal links way under your skin, which is pretty much bad news. I think we'll need to agree to disagree on this one.  Again, I'm allowing for a fantastic element, precisely because it's a definitely fantastic character. Note that the originator of the concept of mithril armor, Tolkien, had it worn by the Hobbits underneath their regular clothing, pretty much flush against the skin. This suggests that the normal issues simply do not apply. I'm more willing to be impressed by the fact, then, that the armor still covers all the vital points--arguably, it even covers the neck in a fashion that would be impossible with 'normal' armor. Or it could just mean that Hobbits in general are a peaceful lot who know jack diddly shit about how to properly wear armor, and are lucky that mithril is super-fanta-magically strong or they'd have gotten screwed up by their own mail. Just a thought.
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| Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:06 am |
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Chris
Host
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:23 am Posts: 8572
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 Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
For you, isn't that redundant? 
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| Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:22 am |
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Jahaili
Red Boba Fett
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:14 pm Posts: 10318 Location: Loveland, CO
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 Re: Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Chris wrote: For you, isn't that redundant?  QFT
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| Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:16 am |
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Freemage
ZCE's Grandmother's Quantum Cat
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:02 pm Posts: 5651
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 Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Azhrei Vep wrote: Freemage wrote: Knaight wrote: Here's the thing. Even if that mail didn't break, getting stabbed could simply bury a bunch of metal links way under your skin, which is pretty much bad news. I think we'll need to agree to disagree on this one.  Again, I'm allowing for a fantastic element, precisely because it's a definitely fantastic character. Note that the originator of the concept of mithril armor, Tolkien, had it worn by the Hobbits underneath their regular clothing, pretty much flush against the skin. This suggests that the normal issues simply do not apply. I'm more willing to be impressed by the fact, then, that the armor still covers all the vital points--arguably, it even covers the neck in a fashion that would be impossible with 'normal' armor. Or it could just mean that Hobbits in general are a peaceful lot who know jack diddly shit about how to properly wear armor, and are lucky that mithril is super-fanta-magically strong or they'd have gotten screwed up by their own mail. Just a thought. I concur that the hobbits got lucky. However, that still makes them ~right~, when it comes to wearing mithril. Armor protects at the cost of speed and agility. Mail that can be worn like cloth, with no significant padding, would be a way of gaining that protection without the cost. It's worth noting that mithril, in D&D, is not merely lighter--armors made from it imbue fewer or no penalties on movement and agility. That would suggest that the "mail worn as cloth" concept is, in fact, how it should work. In a group shot, the elf should be standing next to one of the better-portrayed humans from the list; the human wearing a padded suit of forged steel of the sort that Knaight was advocating, the elf wearing the mithril mail.
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| Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:18 am |
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Knaight
( 1. Numbered List ( 2. Dan ) 3. Venn Diagram )
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:15 pm Posts: 4273 Location: Fort Collins, CO
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 Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Freemage wrote: Armor protects at the cost of speed and agility. Mail that can be worn like cloth, with no significant padding, would be a way of gaining that protection without the cost. It's worth noting that mithril, in D&D, is not merely lighter--armors made from it imbue fewer or no penalties on movement and agility. That would suggest that the "mail worn as cloth" concept is, in fact, how it should work.
In a group shot, the elf should be standing next to one of the better-portrayed humans from the list; the human wearing a padded suit of forged steel of the sort that Knaight was advocating, the elf wearing the mithril mail. You really don't lose that much speed or agility. Full plate won't prevent you from doing cartwheels, and properly fitted armor basically doesn't restrict movement. I'm not saying you lose no agility or speed, but the amount is pretty trivial, and unless you need to climb or swim frequently armor is basically always a good idea.
_________________ "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
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| Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:32 pm |
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Viletta Vadim
The Baron's Body Double
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:45 pm Posts: 3488
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 Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Of course, none of that has anything to do with the meaning of "reasonable" in the context of the blog, since the blog is about armored women who look badass instead of cheesecakey. It's not anti-stylization. Especially when the baseline for comparison is closer to this
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| Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:57 pm |
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Citizen Joe
Myopic Sycophant
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:09 pm Posts: 2608
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 Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Freemage wrote: Armor protects at the cost of speed and agility. Mail that can be worn like cloth, with no significant padding, would be a way of gaining that protection without the cost. It's worth noting that mithril, in D&D, is not merely lighter--armors made from it imbue fewer or no penalties on movement and agility. That would suggest that the "mail worn as cloth" concept is, in fact, how it should work. Armor works by reducing the concentration of impact to manageable levels. Two techniques are deflection and dispersion. Plate armors, and some of the scale armors use deflection. Blows hit the armor at weird angles and most of the energy gets deflected away. Chainmail uses dispersion. It intercepts a concentrated blow, like from a sword, and spreads the blow over a larger area. That is where the padding comes in (never mind the chaffing). Without padding to displace the energy, elven chain offers very little protection. I would even say NONE vs. bludgeoning attacks.
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| Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:09 pm |
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Knaight
( 1. Numbered List ( 2. Dan ) 3. Venn Diagram )
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:15 pm Posts: 4273 Location: Fort Collins, CO
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 Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Viletta Vadim wrote: Especially when the baseline for comparison is closer to thisHuh. I'm trying to figure out whether the armor, the shield, or the spear is the dumbest of the lot, and it is proving difficult. That said, that is significantly worse than normal, and its the typical which should be used as a baseline for comparison. Still, that is somewhat closer than any of the pictures on the tumblr, which is sad and pathetic. Citizen Joe wrote: Freemage wrote: Armor protects at the cost of speed and agility. Mail that can be worn like cloth, with no significant padding, would be a way of gaining that protection without the cost. It's worth noting that mithril, in D&D, is not merely lighter--armors made from it imbue fewer or no penalties on movement and agility. That would suggest that the "mail worn as cloth" concept is, in fact, how it should work. Armor works by reducing the concentration of impact to manageable levels. Two techniques are deflection and dispersion. Plate armors, and some of the scale armors use deflection. Blows hit the armor at weird angles and most of the energy gets deflected away. Chainmail uses dispersion. It intercepts a concentrated blow, like from a sword, and spreads the blow over a larger area. That is where the padding comes in (never mind the chaffing). Without padding to displace the energy, elven chain offers very little protection. I would even say NONE vs. bludgeoning attacks. Exactly. Unless it stiffens when hit and a large area is suddenly basically a solid plate that won't bend in, the mail is nigh useless. The fact that it is flexible means that padding is necessary.
_________________ "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
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| Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:13 pm |
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Zalzidrax
Teller of gaming stories
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:04 pm Posts: 912
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 Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
It's not like fantasy, it's not like conservation of momentum applies anywhere else. Ergo if your metal is fantasy special enough, you don't need padding.
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| Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:28 pm |
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Viletta Vadim
The Baron's Body Double
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:45 pm Posts: 3488
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 Re: Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor
Knaight wrote: Huh. I'm trying to figure out whether the armor, the shield, or the spear is the dumbest of the lot, and it is proving difficult. That said, that is significantly worse than normal, and its the typical which should be used as a baseline for comparison. Still, that is somewhat closer than any of the pictures on the tumblr, which is sad and pathetic. Unfortunately, it isn't any worse than normal. The default for women in armor is the steel lingerie, the battle corset, the boob-windowed skin-tight thing paired with metal stripper boots. If you want worse than normal, you're getting into the realm of the "pasties and a cork" school of design. Or something like this.
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| Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:45 pm |
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