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Ikoma
The Baron's Body Double
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:29 pm Posts: 3051 Location: Pleasant Grove, UT
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 Re: Genre vs. Literature
As a BFA degree holder, I have to say you are... completely correct.
Look, it's not that there isn't legitimate scholarship in the FA departments. And it's not that aren't legitimate grounds for investigating and exploring art in that kind of academic setting. But they are certainly different than the craft of *creating* art. And they are *very* susceptible to that bullshit you speak of. Any half-smart individual could cruise through many FA classes by [ A ] knowing the right buzz words to sprinkle in class discussion and papers and [ B ] knowing the teacher well enough to either agree with them or push their buttons.
I totally get why tenure is a *thing* and why it *needs* to be a thing. But it also does real damage to FA programs when Professor Zed is professional untouchable (barring legal troubles) AND is in the position to pass judgement that his/her students need to accept to pass.
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| Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:09 am |
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keithcurtis
Harbinger of the Coz
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:00 am Posts: 6243 Location: blink.
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 Genre vs. Literature
Yes, I have the feeling that going through the program at a different school might have elicited very different results. I still remember the very assignment that changed the course of my life. Blessings upon the sculpture professor who told us to "assemble 3 Found Objects, including 1 that is from a living creature, into a form that elicits a feeling of 'dry hardness'."
No objective criteria at all. You had to play the professor, not develop your craft. Instead I transferred and learned an entire raft of graphic arts skills that became obsolete five years after I got my diploma. (press type and ruby lith for the process camera. I need to get a PMT of this paste-up)
Ah well, at least I still have my artistic integrity. That and three dollars will buy me a cup of coffee.
_________________ Portfolio and Commissions | Savage Earth | Blog: Out of My Mind "Never bring Newtonian physics to a magic fight"–Freemage
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| Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:47 pm |
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Noble Bear
Network Host
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:26 am Posts: 12019 Location: Bay Area, CA
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 Re: Genre vs. Literature
Keith, it is different, but even if you had gone to my my school now, you might still be making the same decisions. Most of the former FA major I have met (who's art is completely gorgeous, BTW) bailed out of the major because the didn't want to put up with the studio system or just wanted an actual paying job after graduation.
_________________ A bear there was! A bear! a bear! All black and brown and covered with hair!
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| Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:48 pm |
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keithcurtis
Harbinger of the Coz
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:00 am Posts: 6243 Location: blink.
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 Genre vs. Literature
At the time, I had come to the conclusion that the large part over success on being a fine artist lay in selling others on your talent. Your work couldn't speak for itself; it was all in presentation and how you used your powers of persuasion to convince others of your worth. I wanted none of that. I felt that it made my art essentially worthless on its own, and merely made me a self marketer and art scene good ol' boy. I don't feel quite that way about it these days, but I still feel that's a large part of it, and why I will likely never be wildly successful as a pure artist.
_________________ Portfolio and Commissions | Savage Earth | Blog: Out of My Mind "Never bring Newtonian physics to a magic fight"–Freemage
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| Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:14 pm |
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Lord Foul
Posts are 70% derisive diatribe and 30% poorly presented advice
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:23 am Posts: 34304 Location: Great Britain
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 Re: Genre vs. Literature
keithcurtis wrote: Concise Locket wrote: What I'm referring to are artists and writers who create works in order to please critics and (to some degree) an isolated academic establishment. When I was in my Art History coursework I saw patterns of this type of behavior in fine art, usually painting, but also in performance art like 'happenings.' This is pretty much the essence of why I eventually switched my major from Fine Arts to Graphic Arts. I felt it to be more intellectually honest, and more dependent on objective craftsmanship than, well to put it bluntly: bullshit. YMMV, but at the time and place I studied, the FA department were hopeless navel-gazers. And this is the exact same reason I am not an architect. 
_________________ "...with frikin' lasers!"
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| Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:29 pm |
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Freemage
ZCE's Grandmother's Quantum Cat
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:02 pm Posts: 5556
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 Re: Genre vs. Literature
Lord Foul wrote: keithcurtis wrote: Concise Locket wrote: What I'm referring to are artists and writers who create works in order to please critics and (to some degree) an isolated academic establishment. When I was in my Art History coursework I saw patterns of this type of behavior in fine art, usually painting, but also in performance art like 'happenings.' This is pretty much the essence of why I eventually switched my major from Fine Arts to Graphic Arts. I felt it to be more intellectually honest, and more dependent on objective craftsmanship than, well to put it bluntly: bullshit. YMMV, but at the time and place I studied, the FA department were hopeless navel-gazers. And this is the exact same reason I am not an architect.  A friend of mine went to a technical school for architecture. The department was split between the types who did the sort of things that Keith was complaining about (such as the professor who would assign his class to make a structure out of chicken bones), and the ones who were VERY engineering-oriented. She was a member of the latter group; one of her big things at the time was finding a cheaper way to build decent housing by means of little tricks (like making the dimensions work with exact numbers of the various default sizes of lumber--so you never had to spend time trimming on-site).
_________________ You say "wankery" like it's a bad thing.
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| Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:54 pm |
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