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 New Theory on Signs 
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Post Re: New Theory on Signs
goatunit wrote:
Mikel wrote:
You're making a lot of logical leaps that the movie gives you no reason to make. You can make these kind of assumptions to close plot holes in any movie but it doesn't mean the plot holes don't still exist.


I'm not, though. I'm not making any leaps, because I am not explaining the aliens or their behavior, because I recognize that there are virtually infinite explanations for it. The characters in the film had no way of receiving any information about either the aliens plans or capacity to behave differently, and so we got no answers. Fortunately, no answers are needed.

I don't know if the aliens are stupid, or if they are religious, or if they are sick. All I know is that the aliens landed without space suits. I can either react by saying, "That's so stupid! No aliens would ever do that! I should know!" or I can react by saying, "Oh, they must not wear space suits for some reason."

The list above was intended to point out that the second option is the more sensible.


You've just explained exactly why I think you're making leaps in logic to try to come up with reasons why it's okay.

And there are a lot of people, myself among them, who thought answers were needed.


Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:05 pm
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Post Re: New Theory on Signs
Mikel wrote:
goatunit wrote:
Mikel wrote:
You're making a lot of logical leaps that the movie gives you no reason to make. You can make these kind of assumptions to close plot holes in any movie but it doesn't mean the plot holes don't still exist.


I'm not, though. I'm not making any leaps, because I am not explaining the aliens or their behavior, because I recognize that there are virtually infinite explanations for it. The characters in the film had no way of receiving any information about either the aliens plans or capacity to behave differently, and so we got no answers. Fortunately, no answers are needed.

I don't know if the aliens are stupid, or if they are religious, or if they are sick. All I know is that the aliens landed without space suits. I can either react by saying, "That's so stupid! No aliens would ever do that! I should know!" or I can react by saying, "Oh, they must not wear space suits for some reason."

The list above was intended to point out that the second option is the more sensible.


You've just explained exactly why I think you're making leaps in logic to try to come up with reasons why it's okay.

And there are a lot of people, myself among them, who thought answers were needed.


That's what fanfic it for. :P

Signs really isn't much different from War of the Worlds in terms of explaining the aliens physiology and motives. It just lacks the exposition at the end that WotW had to really wrap it up.

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Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:45 pm
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Post Re: New Theory on Signs
Morgan_Lockbreaker wrote:
Signs really isn't much different from War of the Worlds in terms of explaining the aliens physiology and motives. It just lacks the exposition at the end that WotW had to really wrap it up.


That's really well put Morgan.

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Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:29 pm
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Post Re: New Theory on Signs
Zero wrote:
Morgan_Lockbreaker wrote:
Signs really isn't much different from War of the Worlds in terms of explaining the aliens physiology and motives. It just lacks the exposition at the end that WotW had to really wrap it up.


That's really well put Morgan.


Thanks. Oh, and pardon typos.

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Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:34 pm
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Post Re: New Theory on Signs
goatunit wrote:
I don't think he was trying to solve the problem of evil. I don't think Icarus was trying to solve the problem of hubris.


Hrm... I'll take the Free Will vs. Determinism concept, then. It's another philosophical concept that a movie is simply poorly suited to addressing.

One thing worth remembering--this invasion was going on all over the world, the globe was quite clearly in a state of panic. Doubtless there were landfalls in desert nations and frozen tundras and all sorts of other locales where water wasn't a big deal. In those places, given the stated hostility of the aliens, people were likely dying or being abducted by the bucketload. So the universe is STILL a completely arbitrary crapshoot.

The question is simply too big for the format, and Signs suffers from overreaching its medium in a fatal fashion.

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Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:37 pm
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Post Re: New Theory on Signs
:facepalm:

Can't we all just agree that Signs 2 should be a four hour epic about Mel Gibson being slapped over and over again?


Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:53 pm
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Post Re: New Theory on Signs
I would pay to see 4 hours of Mel Gibson being slapped set to Entry of the Gladiators. I'm surprised no one has made a youtube video of it ^.^

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Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:57 am
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Post Re: New Theory on Signs
goatunit wrote:
:facepalm:

Can't we all just agree that Signs 2 should be a four hour epic about Mel Gibson being slapped over and over again?


... By the British.

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Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:18 am
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Post Re: New Theory on Signs
Zero wrote:
I would pay to see 4 hours of Mel Gibson being slapped set to Entry of the Gladiators. I'm surprised no one has made a youtube video of it ^.^



If you are a Game of Thorns fan this should tide you over:


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Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:41 am
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Post Re: New Theory on Signs
Mikel wrote:
You've just explained exactly why I think you're making leaps in logic to try to come up with reasons why it's okay.


I understand the argument that you are making, and it is frequently a legitimate argument when someone defends what are perceived as plot holes in a film. However, it is only applicable when someone makes an assertion.

I am not saying that some specific event is the reason for the aliens not wearing space suits. I am saying that there are dozens of possible explanations, none of which are of any significance to the function of the narrative.

You say that you felt it needed to be explained in the film, and that's fair enough as an opinion. I don't know if there would've been a good way to provide that information to the protagonists that wouldn't have felt shoe-horned in. I think the expectation that there should remain no mysteries of motive at the end of a film is a strange one, but oh well.

Freemage wrote:
Hrm... I'll take the Free Will vs. Determinism concept, then. It's another philosophical concept that a movie is simply poorly suited to addressing.


I don't agree with this at all. All art has to overcome the handicap of being created with purpose, and therefore presenting a deterministic universe in some sense - but this isn't particularly true of film over any other medium. I'm not sure that I can see any reason to ascribe this limitation to movies in any specific way.

A Clockwork Orange, Memento, Minority Report, 12 Monkeys, and Run Lola Run are all examples of excellent films that tangle with free will as a core concept.

(Edit: Or films that tangle excellently with free will, if it pleases the court.)

Freemage wrote:
One thing worth remembering--this invasion was going on all over the world, the globe was quite clearly in a state of panic. Doubtless there were landfalls in desert nations and frozen tundras and all sorts of other locales where water wasn't a big deal. In those places, given the stated hostility of the aliens, people were likely dying or being abducted by the bucketload. So the universe is STILL a completely arbitrary crapshoot.


I don't understand your intent with this observation. One cannot present a case that our universe is governed by a benevolent intelligence by creating a work in which no one suffers. That is demonstrably not the universe that we live in. Indeed, that people suffer is the core platform from which the rest of the narrative is erected.


Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:16 am
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