What's the worst SF/Fantasy Sequel/Prequel of all time?
What's the worst SF/Fantasy Sequel/Prequel of all time?
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VaMinion
Myopic Sycophant
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 4:42 pm Posts: 2850 Location: Virginia
Re: What's the worst SF/Fantasy Sequel/Prequel of all time?
clintmemo wrote:
Well, enough Star Wars bashing. Let's move on to Marvel.
Spider-man 3 should have been two movies. It's only really bad during the last portion. It's like Raimi thought, "Crap, this movie is too long and we need an ending. Let's just have the two villains magically find each other and decide to have a big fight." It should have ended with Spider-man defeating Sandman with symbiote and then the creation of Venom.
Venom as the big villain of the trilogy could have been really interesting if approached properly. That would involve skipping the origin story, though.
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Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:13 am
Knaight
( 1. Numbered List ( 2. Dan ) 3. Venn Diagram )
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:15 pm Posts: 4254 Location: Fort Collins, CO
Re: What's the worst SF/Fantasy Sequel/Prequel of all time?
Raygereio wrote:
DocTWisted wrote:
Kids liked them, it's the adults who hated them. You sir, are looking back to the Ewoks like the kid you were, and are looking at the Gungans like the adult you are.
I saw Phantom Menace when I was all of seven, having seen the other 3 between 6 and 7. Even then, I detested Jar Jar (some of the Gungans were decent, but Jar Jar was awful) and had no problem with the Ewoks.
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Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:03 pm
Curn_Bounder
I am the story stick
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:20 pm Posts: 1453
Re: What's the worst SF/Fantasy Sequel/Prequel of all time?
Knaight wrote:
Raygereio wrote:
DocTWisted wrote:
Kids liked them, it's the adults who hated them. You sir, are looking back to the Ewoks like the kid you were, and are looking at the Gungans like the adult you are.
I saw Phantom Menace when I was all of seven, having seen the other 3 between 6 and 7. Even then, I detested Jar Jar (some of the Gungans were decent, but Jar Jar was awful) and had no problem with the Ewoks.
I know . . . I know. . . we're supposed to move past Star Wars--still, I have to say. The thing that I always hated was that even the other Gungans knew Jar Jar was an idiot (the general from the final battle would have made a better character--thought still, ugh) yet they chose him to serve on Coruscant.
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Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:29 pm
Concise Locket
Teller of gaming stories
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:52 am Posts: 927 Location: Indianapolis
Re: What's the worst SF/Fantasy Sequel/Prequel of all time?
VaMinion wrote:
clintmemo wrote:
Well, enough Star Wars bashing. Let's move on to Marvel.
Spider-man 3 should have been two movies. It's only really bad during the last portion. It's like Raimi thought, "Crap, this movie is too long and we need an ending. Let's just have the two villains magically find each other and decide to have a big fight." It should have ended with Spider-man defeating Sandman with symbiote and then the creation of Venom.
Venom as the big villain of the trilogy could have been really interesting if approached properly. That would involve skipping the origin story, though.
SM3 suffered from too many bits being played up for comedic effect - Peter Parker dressing like a lesbian, the stupid song and dance number... I liked Parker acting the goof in the first film. He was a teenage kid who discovered he had superpowers and went to town with them. But the 'Venom-influence' was just awkward to watch, and not even in a funny way. It was also a big divergence from the source material. I don't remember the symbiote making Parker act like an angry dick; it just fed on his life force until it was forcibly removed and bonded with Eddie Brock on accident.
Thomas Haden Church put on a better performance than Topher Grace (not that it was a high bar to jump) but the Sandman plot added unnecessary retconning and split the story up too much for a two hour flick. Spider-Man v. Venom was all the film needed.
Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:27 pm
Azhrei Vep
Loves a Zinger
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:44 pm Posts: 17936 Location: Sitting in Judgement from the Oval Office
Re: What's the worst SF/Fantasy Sequel/Prequel of all time?
Concise Locket wrote:
But the 'Venom-influence' was just awkward to watch, and not even in a funny way.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one. HARD. Watching him walking around acting like he was hot shit and everyone knew it when, in fact, everybody was obviously repulsed by him was the high point of that movie.
That and the absurd dance scene, because it's not like I had any chance of taking the movie seriously after seeing Goblin Mk2 anyway. If you're going to go, go all out.
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Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:12 pm
Raygereio
I am the story stick
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:02 am Posts: 1326 Location: Netherlands
Re: What's the worst SF/Fantasy Sequel/Prequel of all time?
Azhrei Vep wrote:
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one. HARD. Watching him walking around acting like he was hot shit and everyone knew it when, in fact, everybody was obviously repulsed by him was the high point of that movie.
BASK IN THE GLORY OF THE SPIDEY DANCE!
Yeah, I have to agree with Veppie here. My first instinct when I saw it was to cringe, but I ended up finding it funny just because of how goofy it was. Sometimes something is so bad, it ends up being good.
On that note, I'm rather suprised that any of the Tim Burton/Joel Schumacher batman movies aren't on the list. Mind you, clearly anyone who would have voted for Batman & Robin is wrong because that movie is one the best comedies ever made. Sure, it wasn't intended as such, but who cares! It has Schwarzenegger throwing out one ice pun after the other. How can you not love that sillyness?!
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Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:10 pm
clintmemo
Sat through Dan's Cap Ship Lecture and didn't fall asleep... mostly
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:38 am Posts: 11731 Location: Louisville KY
Re: What's the worst SF/Fantasy Sequel/Prequel of all time?
Batman and Robin. Totally forgot about that one - sorry.
I also found "Peter Parker: Epic Douchebag" funny. And it ended well - with both Gwen and Mary Jane pissed at him.
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:03 pm Posts: 4616 Location: Hollister, CA
Re: What's the worst SF/Fantasy Sequel/Prequel of all time?
On SM3 and Venom:
It could have been done much better, with giving an origin story... if they had allowed that to be the only villain. Of course, that was not what the studio wanted. As previously stated, having watched a great deal of Raimi's films, I think he threw up his hands and just shoved this one out because executive meddling was choking him to death.
To have Parker be affected by the Venom symbiote IS canon, but it wasn't turning him into a douche, it was ramping up his aggressiveness. He wasn't just capturing criminals, he was hospitalizing them after they'd already been subdued. He should have been seen getting a little grabby with MJ, or gotten in a shouting match with his best friend Harry, or maybe even snapped at May for "smothering" him. It should not have had him acting like he'd fallen out of a remake of Reefer Madness.
Also, the scariest part of Venom once it had its new host was two factors: 1) He knew everything about Parker, including who he cared about most. 2) He did NOT trigger Parker's Spidey-Sense, which meant he was one of the very few characters that could sneak attack him.
I think the first of those was touched on in SM3 really briefly, but it should have been worked for suspense more. The second made him a more dangerous threat than any previous enemy... or it would have, if they had used it in the film.
There is no film titled Batman and Robin. I'd go so far as to say there is no film director named Joel Schumacher.
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Re: What's the worst SF/Fantasy Sequel/Prequel of all time?
DocTWisted wrote:
okeefe wrote:
Phantom is so bad that it sunk the two movies that followed and tainted the originals. Unforgivable.
I hinted at what I thought was the worst part of TPM earlier, but I might as well outright state it.
It wasn't the Gungans. It wasn't the Chariot Pod race sequence. It wasn't the other racist stereotype aliens.
It can be summed up in one word: Midichlorians.
The one scene, entirely unnecessary to the films and destroying the awesomeness of Jedi forever, was when Anakin has a blood sample taken and is shown to have an unusually high concentration of bacterium that are explained to give people influence over the force.
In this one scene, in this one snippet of exposition, he took what was essentially space sorcery with a heavy influence of Zen-Buddhism and despoiled it into a kind of reversed Scientology.
And it was not needed. It looked to me like Lucas fixing a problem because he had forgotten the rules of his own mythos. He needed some way for Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to recognize that Anakin could become a powerful Jedi, so they went with this blood scanner thing, when really all he had to do is have the first scene with Anakin meeting the Jedi include the two Jedi looking at him with surprise and going:
Qui-Gon: Do you feel that? Obi-Wan: Yes, a very strong disturbance in The Force. Qui-Gon: It seems to be centered on this small boy. Obi-Wan: So it does. We must take him back to the council, so he might be trained.
That's it! That's all that was needed! It was established in ANH that people connected to The Force can sense one another's influence upon it. Obi-Wan and Darth Vader tracked each other through a maze of a battle station to duel by feeling each other's Force presence. If Anakin was that strong in the Force, meeting him the first time would be like a psychic bitchslap to anyone with Jedi or Sith training. It'd be like a recording artist talent scout finding a six year old that could belt an A above high C.
I agree 100%. There was no need for that....as you said, all it did was muddy the concept of The Force. Ben Kenobi laid it out very clearly in A New Hope.
It was an simple yet elegant explanation, and fans totally accepted it....
And then Phantom Menace comes along and basically redefines it.
Likewise, the notion that Anakin was the result of a virgin birth was completely unnecessary as well.....there were about a dozen alternate plot hooks that would have worked so much better with respect to Anakin's parents.
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Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:55 am
keithcurtis
Harbinger of the Coz
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:00 am Posts: 6243 Location: blink.
What's the worst SF/Fantasy Sequel/Prequel of all time?
I was an adult for both RotJ and for TPM. Gungans are generally hated more because their portrayal is so comical and outrageous as to break the fourth wall. They make modern jokes ("exsqueeze me?") and add toilet humor (stepping in "Bantha poodoo"), elements seen nowhere else in Star Wars. In virtually all other cases in the original trilogy, humor is understated and springs from dialog and situation. Witness the horrible one liners of Threepio in Attack.
That being said, I did see plenty of Ewok dislike when Return premiered. It was mostly on the order of disliking cute little teddy bears that seemed to be obvious marketing for a toy line. And indeed, for many years they were the only property developed (2 tv movies and a cartoon series). In these latter, they were played as broadly as the Gungans and received the same level of dislike from the adult fan community. There's bad and then there's embarrassing to be seen appreciating.
Finally, I'm a little tired of the dismissive comments regarding age when you saw the originals vs age when you saw the prequels. It deflects from real critical comments and has been shown by several posters to be an untrue generalization.
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