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 The Legacy Bear Deck 
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Post Re: The Legacy Bear Deck
That guy's an idiot. You never, EVER play blue against someone else on their first time out. Or you at least sit on your counterspells.

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Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:07 pm
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Post Re: The Legacy Bear Deck
VaMinion wrote:
That guy's an idiot. You never, EVER play blue against someone else on their first time out. Or you at least sit on your counterspells.

You'll get no argument from me. I've decried his idiocy for years now. But it's in the past and it's a thing that happened to me. Magic isn't really my thing anyway. I prefer more cooperative games.

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Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:09 pm
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Post Re: The Legacy Bear Deck
pkalata wrote:
Reasons I don't like Magic:
Financial Metagame
Arms Race Metagame
Blue Control


While I agree that Blue Control can be a real pain in the butt. The first two can be mitigated against. Last night, I found the local scene is very proxy friendly. And in talking with one kid, he said the local players would help the winner of the local tourney put together the deck he wanted (i.e. loan him cards) to take to bigger tournaments. That said, in a real cut-throat environment (big tournaments or harsh local scenes), those can be a big deal-breaker on the game.

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Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:04 pm
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Post Re: The Legacy Bear Deck
A couple points.

1. Going to the tourney scene with casual in mind is not always a bad idea. I would highly recommend anyone that enjoys playing casually to go to Pre-release and Release events. You get a shiny foil rare for showing up (can't play with it though), and it brings a lot of people that want a couple cards. You will run into the FNM grinders, but with holding a select few, most Magic players are nice people.

When a new set comes out people are excited. Players that are use to travel for PTQ's know that casual players come to Release events. A lot of them in turn are very polite, some even helping you to beat themselves.

To truly have fun playing Magic you need to find a group that is willing to play to your style. I would highly recommend if you get along with your current gaming group well, go down and get some pre-constructed decks from Target, Wal-Mart, or your friendly local game store. Build from there, switch decks, trade with each other. Hold a draft for a couple friends. Once a month buy three packs each and draft. After a couple months you'll figure out your play style and have a decent base of cards to build a deck or modify one you already have.

2. Financial burdens, bollocks. I could make anyone on these forums a competitive deck around 60 dollars in any format but Legacy( Even then mana-less dredge comes close). Take away some of the killer rares that cost a fortune and you can build anything for around 50 dollars. I know that's too much for some people, but you don't have to buy everything at once.

There are over currently 12,366 cards in Magic. If you cannot find a suitable replacement for a card that isn't within your budget you are being stubborn.

3. Control, the great hate of new players. It takes a bit of time to learn how to play around control. Although it is the reason there are sideboards. Some decks are extremely powerful and effective. If you're buddy keeps countering all your spells, play some creatures that cannot be countered. Play some of your own counterspells. Evolution of play is one of the best things about Magic. When I first started playing again Faeries was the top deck. It was everywhere. It was such an annoying control deck, and to make matters worse you were being beaten on by faeries.

Decks evolve to combat them, new decks are created, and then when a deck is all but forgotten someone comes back strong with a few new tricks. I love it.

If anyone ever needs help finding answers to beat a deck do not hesitate to ask me. I spend far too much time looking at strategies, deck building theorycraft, and professional player's blogs I should be able to give you a reasonable solution for most problems.

3. The meta, it only changes if you're trying to be competitive. Kitchen tables evolve at a much slower pace. This argument in my mind is like saying, "I want to play flag football, but when I go to play with Tebow he always wins." The arms race only exists if you play within the field. My casual table and my competitive table are two completely different places.


The best way I can describe what I'm trying to say is by example. I like board games as well. I've played Settlers of Twilight Imperium a handful of time with friends on our off-RPG days. So last Gen Con I signed up for T.I. tourney, thinking "This is a fun game, I'll play some new people." I had a horrible time. I got kicked out the first round. I was destroyed. I was clinging onto two planets at the end of the game. The only reason I was kept around was because I was the Lion guys with the sweet trade agreements.

I guess just to each their own. I'm done ranting.

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Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:46 pm
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Post Re: The Legacy Bear Deck
pkalata wrote:
I have played Magic casually on occasion. I like green monster decks (RAR! Stompy stompy!) because they're kind of fun. There was one elf deck I had where I generated life and mana like crazy then my coup de grace was Taunting Elf with Venomous Dagger (or something) before steamrolling the other player with my buffed elves. It worked maybe 1-in-5 times.

Reasons I don't like Magic:

Financial Metagame
I don't like Magic and other collectible games where the person with the biggest wallet wins. Spamming booster packs in the hopes of getting the right rares to build the perfect deck simply does not appeal to me. Buying the cards individually isn't any cheaper. RPGs don't have this. Yes, D&D has a shit ton of supplements but none of them are required for you to play the game. You get a fully functioning system in the core 3 books of any edition (PHB, MM, and DMG). You may need to buy more books if you play in RPGA or whatever but for home play it's not required.

Arms Race Metagame
Magic is particularly insidious because if you want to play competitively on the tournament scene (even at friendly local tourneys), you have to keep on top of what the hot decks are at the moment. Some guy will win the Magic world tournament and everyone will copy his deck for six months. Then a deck that kills that one will come on the scene and you have to build your deck to counter the new one. Repeat ad inifinitum.

Blue Control
This is my personal hang up because I had a bad first experience with the game. In middle school one of my friends was really into Magic and he wanted to get me into the game. So he sat me down with a deck (red direct damage, I think) while he sat down with his favorite deck. Except he loved to play blue control. So he tried to teach me the game by not letting me play it. That kind of soured me on the entire game.


:agree:

Magic is a great game, but those three flaws are just BRUTAL. I haven't played since the early 2000s and have no plans to start again because of those three factors, which is a shame.

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Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:00 pm
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Post Re: The Legacy Bear Deck
1 and 2 are only an issue if you're playing competitively.

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Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:19 pm
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Post Re: The Legacy Bear Deck
VaMinion wrote:
1 and 2 are only an issue if you're playing competitively.


I beg to differ. Having the biggest wallet and the newest stuff is a huge advantage even in casual play.

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Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:20 pm
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Post Re: The Legacy Bear Deck
Must've been your group, then...I never encountered that problem.

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Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:49 pm
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Post Re: The Legacy Bear Deck
Timespike wrote:
VaMinion wrote:
1 and 2 are only an issue if you're playing competitively.


I beg to differ. Having the biggest wallet and the newest stuff is a huge advantage even in casual play.


Only if one (or more) of your casual group is gonna drop a disproportionately large amount of change AND your casual group frowns on proxies. Hasbro/WotC are not gonna show up to your house and bust you for playing a proxied new rare. Now, you can't show for a tourney with proxies in your deck (or rather, you can't for some formats, if I understand correctly) and your local FLGS may not like it.[1] But if your buddies are cool with, buy one starter and just slip text into card sleeves. Bingo! You can play any deck out there... for fun.

[1]Or they may be fine with it. Owner of my FLGS explained he finds people buy more cards when they play with proxies. Turns out once they see how well those cards work together, they WANT to get the real thing. And the more people playing - even those without deep pockets - means more people buying - at the pace that makes them comfortable. But a healthy scene requires more than just the Richie Riches playing.

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Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:37 am
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Post Re: The Legacy Bear Deck
Timespike wrote:
VaMinion wrote:
1 and 2 are only an issue if you're playing competitively.


I beg to differ. Having the biggest wallet and the newest stuff is a huge advantage even in casual play.

these shouldn't be issues in casual play-sounds like no ground rules were established. Playing casual does not equate to spending big money. Crap rares only and/or no rares were a couple options we employed. Drafting too, kinda hard to complain if everyone is dropping the same amonut of money.
competitive play is a different story for sure.
blue control is only bad if you are its opponent, otherwise it is AWESOME! And I steer away from playing it against strangers :D
even the blue control in mtg 2012 Xbox is often a pain in the ass.

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Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:11 am
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