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 Episode 294 – forced success 
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da ba dee da ba die
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:58 am
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Location: Southern California
Post Episode 294 – forced success
Okay, seriously, where can we get Wayne a custom My Little Pony with an Excel cutie mark. This just... needs to happen.


Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:43 pm
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Red Boba Fett
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Post Re: Episode 294 – forced success
Maniah might still be on pause for her commissions, but I think Moonhawke still makes them.... :D

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Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:00 pm
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Chris's Cane Boy and or Girl

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:02 am
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Location: Ireland
Post Re: Episode 294 – forced success
I've been so guilty of not letting my players lose. I had an entire Buffy campaign that just got ridiculous for the crap I let them get away with.

I think if a whole group is pulling that kind of "I slap her" stuff, they're asking for trouble and you should give it to them. If they want to push what they can get away with, push back. There's really no reason to turn a tense talk-down into an escalated conflict unless either someone's life is hanging in the balance or the player just wants to cause trouble.

Of course this become a real problem when it's just one or a few players doing it. In those cases, sometimes an OOC "Are you sure you want to do this?" can help. It breaks immersion, but it's important to remind players that there are consequences, especially when it's early on and they might not be aware of the kinds of consequences that can come from their actions. If they go ahead anyway, have the bad guys hold them alone responsible and let the rest of the group go free.

One thing I think Dan can do to pull back to a more consistent universe is to have the NPCs who let the players go suffer some sort of consequence. Maybe they're involved in an "unfortunate accident" and killed horribly. The PCs then know that someone isn't happy with what happened and might be after them next.

Oh, and on the "I'm always angry" line, that actually made perfect sense to me. If you watch Ed Norton's Incredible Hulk, the Hulk isn't triggered by any specific emotion. It's to do with adrenaline. It's his heart-rate that sets him off, which is why he had to stop when he was in bed with Betty. And by the end of that movie, Banner has learned to trigger the Hulk whenever he wants.

So what he does is keep all his worst feelings dredged up constantly so he's essentially exhausted by them. You see it in Mark Ruffalo's performance. He's constantly drained and resigned to everything around him. I imagine he hardly sleeps. So his heart-rate stays low, except when something extreme happens, like when Loki's followers attack.

That's why he couldn't kill himself, too. Because his heart-rate shot up as he pulled the trigger and he became the Hulk.

When Banner gives the "I'm always angry" line, he's giving a very simplified explanation, basically he means it's not anger that triggers the Hulk.

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Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:55 am
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Aarakocra
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:49 am
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Location: Mobtown, Maryland
Post Re: Episode 294 – forced success
I can't wait for the next episode on juggling players who never like to lose with players who like adversity. We have both in our group and it seems difficult for our GMs to balance. I'm similar to John's perspective. If I take a poor approach to a situation or if luck goes poorly for me, I want to suffer the consequences of my actions. When a GM hands us a victory or doesn't play out the consequences in a plausible manner, my interest is lessened.

That's why Chad's "X." hint would bother me. Unless I'm frustrated and the game has stagnated, I would rather fail than be given the blatant hint. I understand the GM's motive in those instances and sympathize with their desire to move the game forward. It won't destroy a game for me and try not to be overly critical when it happens, but it does lessen my sense of accomplishment and hence, enjoyment of the session.

I find it helps when the GM uses a little smoke and mirrors to have "X." fall into our path. It rarely happens seamlessly but it's less hamfisted than directly telling us, "X." so it's an easier pill to swallow.


Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:57 am
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Myopic Sycophant
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Post Re: Episode 294 – forced success
*Cadence


Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:07 am
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'something' per Dan's request
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Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:16 pm
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Post Re: Episode 294 – forced success
Perhaps it’s a testament to the level of role-playing common sense in your shows that I can listen to an entire episode, chock full of solid advise and input, and then feel compelled to comment on this:

I'm kinda with Wordmaker. I actually appreciated the “I’m always angry” line from Avengers.

It eloquently and elegantly encapsulated how Bruce Banner as a character had come to terms with being the Hulk and how he had attained a certain level of control over his transforming. Anger management 101; you don’t ignore anger, you keep it on a slow burn. The implication being that an uncontrollable rage can be avoided by not suppressing anger but letting it out like a safety value. The benefit being, is that Banner can call on the Hulk in a more controlled fashion by keeping his anger close to the surface (this was also hinted at towards the end of the Edward Norton take on Hulk).

I feel the line was completely necessary to establish the Hulk as a “team-player”.

Yeah, the delivery from Ruffalo was a bit “wink-wink” but he pulled it off.

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Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:09 am
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Sat through Dan's Cap Ship Lecture and didn't fall asleep... mostly
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Post Re: Episode 294 – forced success
:agree:

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Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:59 am
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Sat through Dan's Cap Ship Lecture and didn't fall asleep... mostly
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Post Re: Episode 294 – forced success
My version of whispering "X":

"Everybody roll a perception check."
With 6 or 7 players, someone always rolls something I can plausibly claim was high enough.
"You notice the vent on the lower left corner of the room looks odd for some reason, but you can't quite figure out what is odd about it."
On those rare occasions where everyone rolls crap:
"Huh. Well, I guess you don't notice anything."
Then the meta-gaming kicks in.
"Search all the things!"

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Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:04 am
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Chris's Cane Boy and or Girl

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:02 am
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Location: Ireland
Post Re: Episode 294 – forced success
Yeah, subtle IC pushes are quite easy to pull off, especially in a group you're familiar with.

I'm a big fan of prompting with careful descriptive phrasing such as asking who wants to search a series of rooms, or stuff like "So are you just glancing as you walk by, or are you looking under desks too?"

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Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:13 am
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Post Re: Episode 294 – forced success
Citizen Joe wrote:
*Cadence

:agree: Princess Mi Amore Cadenza disapproves of Chad's bastardization of her name. Candace, bah. How common.

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PS. Fuck you Cafepress


Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:20 am
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